UIL or TASO

[Randy Dale]

Thanks, Mark.  I look forward to reading your thoughts and opinions.

[UT-Ex and FB Ref]

Cool, so what are you two going to talk about first?

The rapid decline of TASO as an organization?  The distrust harbored by many members for their officers?  The disinterest of many TASO FB Board members for anything "TASO" or "football" for all but a few hours in the spring and a free trip to the state meeting?  The attitude of several chapters within the state that it doesn't matter what TASO does or says, we're doing it our way? The lack of consistent communication from the TAASO FB Board?  The on-going "promise" for training materials?  The "joke" of having a soliciting charge levied and 'investigated'?  Or the fact that well over 85% of officials in the state couldn't give a damn about anything other than their schedule. 

In it for the "kids"?  Really?  Name one person.  Everyone is in it for themselves and if they say anything else they're lying to you and themselves.  If it's for the "kids", we wouldn't charge fees, it'd all be charitable donations. 

[TxSkyBolt]

First off welcome to the group of new guys on the board and specifically on this topic.  I'm curious what brought you here, was it this topic?

Best regards,

brad

[UT-Ex and FB Ref]

No Brad,

It wasn't just this topic.  I never lowered myself to respond to anyone here.  Other places?  Yes.

I've talked to others, posted through others, encouraged others, and....

I've been around Texas high school football officiating for 30 years.  I've officiated several years in every position in 5-man mechanics in varisty games.  And, I've had my run at college football too.

I've been involved in the organization at the chapter and state level.

I just got tired of the crap that most post when they have no idea how chapter or state organizations run.

[James]

In it for the "kids"?  Really?  Name one person.  Everyone is in it for themselves and if they say anything else they're lying to you and themselves.  If it's for the "kids", we wouldn't charge fees, it'd all be charitable donations. 

I will disagree with you. I was an active player when I went up to the crew at the end of the game thinking that they had also worked hard and it is good that they were there to let us play.
They told me how to get started, and my motivation was to help to develop the game and sportsmanship (which I find lacking) here in Germany.
I might not officiate as much, but I would still do it without getting paid.

[TxSkyBolt]

No Brad,

It wasn't just this topic.  I never lowered myself to respond to anyone here.  Other places?  Yes.

I've talked to others, posted through others, encouraged others, and....

I've been around Texas high school football officiating for 30 years.  I've officiated several years in every position in 5-man mechanics in varisty games.  And, I've had my run at college football too.

I've been involved in the organization at the chapter and state level.

I just got tired of the crap that most post when they have no idea how chapter or state organizations run.

But you've chosen to lower yourself now?  Wow, I'm honored.

Best regards,

Brad

[Mckorkle]

** Just received from UIL **

Everyone,

This is a reminder to all football officials and chapter officers concerning the UIL Football Meeting that will take place at the Alamodome in Meeting Room K on Friday, December 18th at 6:00 pm.

3 officers of each recognized football chapter in Texas are invited to attend.  If any or all of the three officers cannot make the meeting, a replacement of any chapter member may attend in their absence.  It is very important that every chapter in Texas have representation at this meeting.

If there are any questions concerning who might be in attendance from your chapter please contact your local officers or the UIL office to RSVP.

Information concerning the registration process for 2010-11 will be discussed and football officiating handbooks will be given to each representative at the meeting.  The registration process begins January 15, 2010.

Sincerely,

--
Tony Timmons
UIL Assistant Athletic Director/Officials
512-471-5883
ttimmons@austin.utexas.edu
www.uil.utexas.edu

[TXMike]

I am sure the City of San Antonio is most appreciative of UIL scheduling this meeting on Friday evening so the throngs of folks who come to town for the meeting will get to stay the night and pay into the city's hotel tax fund and sales tax fund.   

[youngun]

Don't forget to mention that after this meeting we can all go down to the riverwalk and have a few cocktails. Gotta love that!!

[Mark Liggett]

Here's an idea - true stimulus - spend all day at the Riverwalk and let the 4 people who show up for the meeting tell you later what was said....  If I were going to be in S.A. at the time, that's what I'd do.......
javascript:void(0);

[HoustonUmp]

I just heard that a letter from the UIL is going out to superintendents of schools giving them an update that the UIL has secured counsel to defend the lawsuit filed by TASO. If you have any relationship with a superintendent of a school it would be good to drop them a note that if they would support the current system using TASO officials. The UIL has called a special meeting of the Legislative council for January 14, 2010 to consider whether additional modifications should be made ( which I read to mean keeping TASO in 1204).

Sounds like somebody has gotten the attention of the UIL   

[JDM]

Speaking of the aforementioned letter. Here's the copy I received:

Dear Superintendents,

The Texas Association of Sports Officials (TASO) filed suit against the UIL on December 3, 2009.  TASO does not want officials to be required to register with the UIL.  In its pleadings, TASO questions the validity of the rule-making authority of the UIL and the Legislative Council.

The University of Texas Office of Legal Affairs, headed by UT Vice President Patti Ohlendorf and Associate Vice President Leo Barnes, have spent considerable time with Dr. Cousins and myself over the last month as they reviewed a complaint filed with the University by TASO. They have developed a considerable understanding of the issues involved and the positions of the parties.

The University has agreed that we should hire outside counsel for this litigation.  We have retained the services of the Law Firm of Lucius Bunton to defend the UIL.  Mr. Bunton and his team, including Jack Crier, have represented the UIL in prior cases and have excellent knowledge of our organization.

Kevin Heyburn of the Office of the Attorney General also is on the litigation team.  Of course, Patti and Leo will continue to be involved as in-house counsel and legal liaison with outside counsel.

Chairman Rick Reedy has advised us that he is calling a Special Meeting of the Legislative Council to allow interested parties to testify on the previously approved amendment in Section 1204 of the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules.  The Legislative Council also may consider whether additional modifications should be made.

The meeting will be called for January 14th 2010. If you have any questions regarding this meeting, please feel free to contact the office.

 

Charles Breithaupt
Executive Director
University Interscholastic League

[TxZebra]

I have been lurking on this board for a little bit of time now and have really learned alot about officiating football through the many people who have posted on here.  I have completed 3 seasons of football in having been on a crew the last two seasons and in my first season, I had the opportunity and priveledge in working 6 varsity assignments.  I have really come to enjoy 6 man football particularly, but overall, the experience has been great and rewarding until all this mess has come up.

I have been to the last two state meetings, served as a sub-varsity assignor this season and hopefully many to come, and was elected by my peers as an area rep for our chapter.  I simply wanted to get involved with the hopes of making a difference and have been given the great honor of being in a place in which to do so.

I say all of that to say this, the feud between the UIL and TASO makes me wonder who this is all about anyways.  The UIL, who should be representing schools and students, seems to be all about itself and the almighty dollar.  They will never, ever, get rich off of officials.  TASO on the other hand has found its last resort to be a lawsuit in hopes that it will postpone the "takeover" by Mr. Timmons.

Without knowing all the details, I dont see a winner in this at all.  The relationship between TASO and UIL will be scarred forever and as it now stands, there are only a very few, errr, 1 person that would be willing to call under the direction of Mr. Timmons.  

What are my best chances of being successful in officiating football and hopefully one day, living a  dream that so many have accomplished?  Do I just cross my fingers in hopes that it comes true?  Please allow me to do what I love and officiate without having to be registered to a money grubbing organization that could care less about my goals and dreams.

David Maddron

Northeast Texas Chapter of Football Officials

[Randy Dale]

David,
Thanks for sharing.  I think a lot of guys share your sentiments.  Here's hoping cooler heads will prevail on both sides, as resorting to name calling is going to do none of us any good.

I was wondering if some from our organization should attend the meeting in San Antonio tomorrow for at least two reasons: 1) just to hear what the UIL has to say, and 2) sorta take the high road in the dispute by adopting the position that it doesn't cost anything to listen.  I've had three years of experience twelve times, and I'm as perplexed by all this as you are.

I'm hoping our San Antonio based experts like TXMike and TexDoc can let us all know what happens.

Randy

[texref]

Randy,

Thanks for your thoughts and service to officiating over these many years.

Our Chapter will not be sending any represetatives to the meeting. Mr. Timmons has made it clear that any Chapter officers attending the meeting will be required to sign a document commiting their Chapters to the UIL. We still see this as an individual decision not one which the Chapter will make for all of its members.

I to hope (and believe) that cooler heads will eventually prevail. I agree with you that the relationship between TASO & UIL will never be the same again. That happened when they began their hostile takeover of TASO Football after years of assuring us they were very happy with the way we were run. I don't know about you but you don't get to sneak up and stab me in the back and then return and ask if everything can go back the way it was.

[blindref757]

Speaking of the aforementioned letter. Here's the copy I received:

Dear Superintendents,

Chairman Rick Reedy has advised us that he is calling a Special Meeting of the Legislative Council to allow interested parties to testify on the previously approved amendment in Section 1204 of the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules.  The Legislative Council also may consider whether additional modifications should be made.

The meeting will be called for January 14th 2010. If you have any questions regarding this meeting, please feel free to contact the office.

 

Charles Breithaupt
Executive Director
University Interscholastic League

Does this mean that the chairman of the Legislative Council is finally going to allow the Council to hear the TASO side of this...despite the many blocks of the past by Contrerras, Cousins, and Breithaup?

[fleetofoot]

Rick Reedy is the SUP of Frisco ISD. He has not listened to any of it yet. Why would he now. Remember raesoning is not a staple of the UIL.

[TXMike]

Speaking of the aforementioned letter. Here's the copy I received:

Dear Superintendents,

The Texas Association of Sports Officials (TASO) filed suit against the UIL on December 3, 2009.  TASO does not want officials to be required to register with the UIL.  In its pleadings, TASO questions the validity of the rule-making authority of the UIL and the Legislative Council.

Uhhhhh...not really.  The issue is not "registering with UIL", it is much more than that.  If "registering with UIL" just means they get to put my name in a database, I could care less as would most every other ref I suspect.   It isthe $50 and their exertion of "control" that we are against.

The University of Texas Office of Legal Affairs, headed by UT Vice President Patti Ohlendorf and Associate Vice President Leo Barnes, have spent considerable time with Dr. Cousins and myself over the last month as they reviewed a complaint filed with the University by TASO. They have developed a considerable understanding of the issues involved and the positions of the parties.

Great, more non-officials (especially non-FOOTBALL officials) putting their two-bits in.

[TXMike]

This is the alleged amendment to be discussed:

Proposal 1
December 14, 2009

Proposed Amendment to the University Interscholastic League Constitution and Contest Rules

A. Brief Explanation of Proposed Amendment

This amendment solidifies a previously approved rule change that requires UIL member schools to
use officials registered with UIL in all varsity team sport contests. The amendment also clarifies
concerns in reference to the status of officials for non-varsity contests.

B. Factual and Policy Justifications

Clarifying language is necessary to make it clear that all varsity team sport contests involving UIL
member schools shall be played utilizing officials who are properly registered with UIL. Additionally,
language addressing officials utilized for non-varsity contests clears up some concerns raised on the
status of those contests.

C. Proposed Amendment

Section 1204 (b), of the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules would be amended as follows effective immediately, pending approval by the Commissioner of Education:

Section 1204: OFFICIALS

(b) REGISTRATION OF SPORTS OFFICIALS FOR UIL CONTESTS. Unless mutually
decided otherwise, participant UIL MEMBER schools shall use officials registered with
the UIL in all varsity contests. If non-UIL registered officials are TO BE used for ANY
varsity contests, a report shall be filed with the League office (within seven days of the
contest, if possible) THE INVOLVED SCHOOLS MUST RECEIVE PRIOR
APPROVAL FROM THE UIL DIRECTOR OF ATHLETICS. Exceptions:

(1) In individual sports (Cross Country, Golf, Swimming and Diving, Team Tennis,
Tennis, Track and Field and Wrestling) schools may select and use non-UIL
registered referees for varsity contests.

(2) UNLESS MUTUALLY DECIDED OTHERWISE, It is recommended that UIL
MEMBER schools SHALL use UIL registered officials for non-varsity games.

D. Legislative Council Consideration; Effective Date

If approved by the Legislative Council and the Commissioner of Education, this
amendment shall be effective immediately.

[504coach]

If approved by the Legislative Council and the Commissioner of Education, this
amendment shall be effective immediately.

Does that imply that baseball will have to be UIL this season?

[JasonTX]

So schools can agree to use Non-UIL officials as long as they send in the report to UIL within 7 days.  That seems to be the way around all this.  We'll just get all our schools to bombard the UIL each week with all those reports.

[blindref757]

I could be wrong, I'm not hearing much out of TASO baseball right now...but it is my understanding that the registration process for baseball is effective immediately, but that the pay scale doesn't begin until next season.

Another screwing if this is the case!!!

[The Ref Thats Lef]

Whilst this may be a get out card it is not for the benefit of officials but for UIL so they can use TASO members if they want to make sure games go ahead.

The good news is they are taking a small step away from requiring only UIL officials to work games. The bad news is this is not any sort of real back down to TASO pressure unless it is a device to allow a genuine debate on the topic, which it does not seem to be but which it might in view of the timing. Why have a special meeting just to clarify the wording of a rule this early.

I suppose one reason may be so the UIL can work on Baseball first, if 504 coach is correct in his reading, as they may see that as an easier nut to crack than football.

[blindref757]

This new language tightens the Non UIL loophole in that it requires schools to get PRIOR CONSENT from Breithaup if they are to use non-UIL officials.

If that is the case, they are trying to tighten the nut on us because they have not had good response to their meeting tomorrow.

It is a shame that they simply refuse to sit down and work it out.  This sucks!

[Etref]

This new language tightens the Non UIL loophole in that it requires schools to get PRIOR CONSENT from Breithaup if they are to use non-UIL officials.

If that is the case, they are trying to tighten the nut on us because they have not had good response to their meeting tomorrow.

It is a shame that they simply refuse to sit down and work it out.  This sucks!

The meeting is going on right now, started at 6PM