Legal or Illegal Movement ?

[TXMike]

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[The Roamin' Umpire]

Neither. False starts, clear as day.

[Welpe]

I have a false start.

[110]

If this wasn't flagged, the crew should be flogged.

[mishatx]

Coach should be flogged for teaching that BS.
 

[NVFOA_Ump]

All false starts.  Any motion that simulates the beginning of the play has to be a false start.  The quickness of the movements here clearly simulate the beginning of a play.

From "The Football Code" under the coaching ethics section (FR-13 in the 09-10 Rulebook:  Shifting in a way that simulates the start of a play or employing any other unfair tactic for the purpose of drawing one’s opponent offside.  This can be construed only as a deliberate attempt to gain an unmerited advantage.

And from Rule 7.1.3.4:  4. No offensive player shall contact an opponent or make a false start, which includes:  (b) A shift or movement that simulates the beginning of a play. This includes the snapper who, after assuming a position for the succeeding snap and touching or simulating (hand(s) at or below his knees) touching the ball, moves to another position.

[Diablo]

I've got illegal shift on the second play.  Ball is snapped while Team A lineman are moving.
Given that the QB is apparently sacked for a loss, Team B might be inclined to decline the penalty.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Don't understand how we can have an illegal shift on this play.  The "Illegal Shift" Movement that draws B into the NZ occurs before the snap, and as a result of that movement B is in the NZ before the snap, which does occur while B is still in the NZ and A has not yet set.  If we call illegal shift now we've got a live ball foul at the snap with B already in the NZ.  We've got offsetting fouls at that point.

This is clearly a "coached" technique, that by definition is illegal and IMO a virtual "automatic" false start, blow & throw.  Also, IMO the coach needs a talking to based on The Football Code preface in the rulebook.

[TXMike]

Yep, it is a FS if before snap, an illegal motion if with the snap, and legal if after the snap starts. 
Agree with the code of ethics issue.

[British Ref]

I agree with a False Start call here.

Someone's been watching old Dallas Cowboys video.

[Diablo]

Don't understand how we can have an illegal shift on this play.  The "Illegal Shift" Movement that draws B into the NZ occurs before the snap, and as a result of that movement B is in the NZ before the snap, which does occur while B is still in the NZ and A has not yet set.  If we call illegal shift now we've got a live ball foul at the snap with B already in the NZ.  We've got offsetting fouls at that point.

I see the order of movements of the second play as 1) Team A lineman stand upright; 2) the snapper snaps the ball to the QB; 3)  Team B moves into the neutral zone.

Event 1) constitutents a shift.  After that shift, the ball was snapped before all those Team A linemen got set for 1 sec.  That's a live-ball foul for illegal shift.  Team B is in the neutral zone legally.

[NVFOA_Ump]

After further review if you watch the 2nd play frame by frame, the ball is snapped before the A line movement but the QB who then has the ball doesn't move for a second or two and waits until the line moves, then pulls out from behind center.  The motion of the A line doesn't actually start until the ball is no longer on the ground, so the 2nd play is legal.