Author Topic: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?  (Read 3183 times)

Offline jason

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False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« on: September 16, 2010, 03:33:26 PM »
3rd and 10, A is on their own 10.  All eleven players from A break the huddle as the RFP is being blown.  They go to the line where the OLinemen get set, but the QB does not put his hands under the center and the snapper has not yet put his hands on the ball.  Just then, a slot WR realizes he's not supposed to be in the game.  He runs in a direct, diagonal line from his offensive position (there were no DBs near enough to him to result in any defensive movement or contact), through the ENZ, into B's backfield, and into the team box, where his substitute crosses paths with him towards the play. 

What do you have?

Rule 3-7-5 eliminates the problem with the entering substitute, but 7-1-6 appears to have some contradiction with 2-1-8.

7-1-6: Following the ready-for-play and after the snapper has placed his hand(s) on the ball, encroachment occurs if any other player breaks the plane of the neutral zone.

2-1-8: Encroachment occurs when a player is illegally in the neutral zone during the
time interval starting when the ball is marked ready for play and until the ball is
snapped or free kicked
.

So which is it?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2010, 09:25:51 PM »
Rule 2 defines what encroachment is.  Rule 7 is the application of the rule.  In both instances, the common denominator is the RFP must have been blown.

when a player is illegally in the neutral zone   He wasn't in the NZ illegally, therefore all the requirements for encroachment were not met.

Encroachment is a two phase process as you must also consider 7-1-5.

Phase 1- (7-1-5)  No player, except the snapper, can encroach after the RFP by touching the ball or an opponent.  Additionally, B can't be in the NZ to give "defensive signals".

Your WR didn't touch the ball nor an opponent so that's out.

Phase 2- (7-1-6)  Following the RFP AND after the snapper has placed his hands on the ball, no other player can break the plane of the NZ.

RFP was blown, no snapper hands on the ball thus he did not encroach.  There is nothing in the substitution rule that states he has to go off on his team's side of the NZ- he just has to go off his sideline and directly to his team box, which its sounds as if he did.

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 12:15:50 PM »
No foul. Casebook 7.1.6D.

ppaltice

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 01:38:25 PM »
No foul. Casebook 7.1.6D.

The question is can the replaced player cross the NZ, not the entering substitute.

Offline VALJ

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 08:54:17 PM »
He's got to get to the team box somehow.  As long as he (a) continues to the team box, and (b) isn't deceiving anyone, I don't have encroachment here.  Encroachment is a player entering the neutral zone, not a replaced player entering the NZ. 

JMHO, though.

LarryW60

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 10:05:11 PM »
I'd rather see him run straight off the field, then move up into his team box.  I'll waive calling a sideline infraction as long as he doesn't dawdle after leaving the field.

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 08:20:04 AM »
The question is can the replaced player cross the NZ, not the entering substitute.

Did you read the entire play? This is addressed in the last sentence.

ppaltice

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 08:35:13 AM »
Did you read the entire play? This is addressed in the last sentence.

Ouch.  I did read the play but must have skimmed the last sentence.  It states: "Similarly, it is not encroachment when a replaced player crosses the neutral zone in leaving the field."  So a replaced player can leave the field by crossing the NZ.  It looks as if this is true even if the snapper is touching the ball.

Offline VALJ

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Re: False Start, Encroachment, No Call, something else?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 11:33:22 AM »
I'd rather see him run straight off the field, then move up into his team box.  I'll waive calling a sideline infraction as long as he doesn't dawdle after leaving the field.

I'd rather that too, but I'm not going to pick nits about it as long as he gets out of the way.