Just recieved this....Free Registration

[HAshleyTX]

LMAO  Halt! HAMMERZEIT!

[rickref]

Some visuals are simply just not needed.

[TxGrayhat]

         

And the crowd Cheers...

[txmustang68]

What was asked to UIL supporters that was not answered?  Or were your questions directed towards someone specific?  I'm probably not the best official in the chapter - guarantee i'm not - but there are a bunch I respect a great deal that are very good - several work college also - that have registered UIL. 

I'm still looking for a logical reason why the UIL is going to be so much better than TASO.  All I get is that TASO is a mess.  Whoopee...i haven't seen anything from UIL that indicates it will be different.  And with it being a one-man show, well, that sounds like trouble.  So, convince me with good, sound reasoning.  I am listening...

[Cooter]

Mustang - I can't speak for other - but I have posted my reasons I feel UIL would be better - I've done it twice in two separate threads.  I don't think repeating it here (its kinda long) would serve much of a purpose.  I will try to put the link to my previous posts regarding your question - I'm not very good at stuff like that so it might take me asking some folks how to tomorrow. 

[TXMike]

Mustang - I can't speak for other - but I have posted my reasons I feel UIL would be better - I've done it twice in two separate threads.  I don't think repeating it here (its kinda long) would serve much of a purpose.  I will try to put the link to my previous posts regarding your question - I'm not very good at stuff like that so it might take me asking some folks how to tomorrow. 

Your previous:

I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name.  But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth.  These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:

1.  It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word.  We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities.  It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football.  I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.

2.  Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by.  Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material.  Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing.  It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.

3.  Oversee better allocation of playoff games.  It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd.  My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.

4.  The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority.  Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money.  If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position.  I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them.  If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.

5.  Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General.  Baseball threatening strike.  Fill in the blanks.  I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state.  I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.

6.  Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it.  Getting any info from this site is very difficult.  I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary.  TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating?  I'm willing to give UIL a chance.

Again - just my reasons.

Cooter

[txmustang68]

Cooter,
Kudos on presenting a logical argument.  I missed the post previously - thanks to TxMike for finding it.  You are right, Ornery1 does the UIL group an injustice, as do 99% of the ones i hear from.  You are the 1st to make a rational argument.
I can't say I disagree with you in principle.  However, I don't think that UIL and TT will do a better job.  When the whole thing started with TASO/UIL, I was neutral.  But as I continue to watch how UIL is handling this, I am developing a really bad taste for them. 
I see them as a one-man show with little regard for anyone who would dare disagree with them.  I already work for one man like that, and have no desire to add another in my life.
Do I believe that TASO is the best organization?  No.  Do I think UIL will improve the situation?  No.  Do I believe a TRUE UIL/TASO partnership would be best?  Yes.  Do I think it will happen?  No. 
I think the writing is on the wall, however, for the end of TASO and the start of officiating in the UIL.  I will not register by November 1, but I most likely will register to continue officiating next year, and give it an honest shot.  But, I would caution you and all other UIL supporters to be wary of the "pie-in-the-sky" promises from UIL.

[TXMike]

Do I believe that TASO is the best organization?  No. 

What expectations do you have of TASO that have not been met?

[Cooter]

Cooter,
Kudos on presenting a logical argument.  I missed the post previously - thanks to TxMike for finding it.  You are right, Ornery1 does the UIL group an injustice, as do 99% of the ones i hear from.  You are the 1st to make a rational argument.
I can't say I disagree with you in principle.  However, I don't think that UIL and TT will do a better job.  When the whole thing started with TASO/UIL, I was neutral.  But as I continue to watch how UIL is handling this, I am developing a really bad taste for them. 
I see them as a one-man show with little regard for anyone who would dare disagree with them.  I already work for one man like that, and have no desire to add another in my life.
Do I believe that TASO is the best organization?  No.  Do I think UIL will improve the situation?  No.  Do I believe a TRUE UIL/TASO partnership would be best?  Yes.  Do I think it will happen?  No. 
I think the writing is on the wall, however, for the end of TASO and the start of officiating in the UIL.  I will not register by November 1, but I most likely will register to continue officiating next year, and give it an honest shot.  But, I would caution you and all other UIL supporters to be wary of the "pie-in-the-sky" promises from UIL.

I absolutely agree with you that Timmons is the wrong man at the wrong time.  I do not see any resolution between TASO and UIL with him in charge.  I hope he his fired - but, I stand by my decision at this time.

Thanks for the response - i enjoy the opportunity to dialogue on the subject and I respect your opinion.

[txmustang68]

TXMike- I have been officiating only 5 seasons now.  When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing.  I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials.  I have been proactive in this area, however, in that I tell my assigning secretary that I refuse to work with certain members that are absolutely horrible, which, in my opinion, is one of the most effective ways to hold an official accountable, though a majority of members will not do this.
i think the website is fairly useless.
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response. 

Having said all that, I am sure we are better off with TASO than with UIL, though a true partnership would be better.  I do appreciate that we have an organization for officials, by officials, and that they are a good advocacy source for us.  I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Etref]

TXMike- I have been officiating only 5 seasons now.  When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing.  I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials.  I have been proactive in this area, however, in that I tell my assigning secretary that I refuse to work with certain members that are absolutely horrible, which, in my opinion, is one of the most effective ways to hold an official accountable, though a majority of members will not do this.
i think the website is fairly useless.
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response. 

Having said all that, I am sure we are better off with TASO than with UIL, though a true partnership would be better.  I do appreciate that we have an organization for officials, by officials, and that they are a good advocacy source for us.  I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

You are correct in what you say. All chapters have the same problem with weak officials and it is a numbers game. Sometimes smaller chapters have to used those guys. Chapters need to do a better job of policing themselves and neither TASO, UIL, the courts or anyone else can do it. It must be done on a local level with oversight from the parent organization.


TASO has been slipping for the last few years and I blame that on leadership. Now that that leadership has changed, I expect a huge upgrade in quality at TASO. I am one of those that thinks TASO football should have been separate all along.

We should have been proactive in background checks, TASO should have slapped down the basketball revolt in Amarillo and  the baseball strike. They should also have been more forceful with UIL on issues of pay, facilities for officials, administrators at games, etc. Although a lot of this is because we as members did not inform TASO that we had to dress 5 officials in a 4'x6' room with no lockers and no shower. That school X did not have an administrator present. So in that respect I blame ourselves for some of the problems.

It has been a fun ride and I hope it will continue, although I am not optomistic.

[TXMike]

When I came in, I found the lack of information and training availability to be disappointing....  I don't see much in the way of accountability (not that UIL will do any better in either area) of poorly performing officials. ......i think the website is fairly useless....
I have attempted in the past to contact TASO about a couple of matters, and it has taken numerous emails and phone calls to get a response. 
.....  I guess what I'm saying is that we need to "tweak" TASO, not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Information and training availability were historically left to the Chapters.  Some have obviously done better than others. We are trying now to take a more centralized approach so that guys in those chapters that have not make this a priority have other places to turn to.  We are doing a lot of it right here through this forum.

"Accountability" is the million dollar word with a near million dollar price tag if it is to be done correctly.  We do not, nor does UIL, have the resources to set up a valid, reliable, thorough, accountability system.  The money and personnel required to set up such a system for 15,000 officials makes it a non-starter.  The best semblance of such a system is just what you mentioned, guys acting on their own to refuse to work with folks that just do not belong on the field.  If nobody will work with them, the Chapters would be forced NOT to put them on the field.  

The website is reportedly being transitioned to a new provider and hopefully it will be a more useful tool for folks in the future.  

Finally, we have to remember when we are talking about the "TASO office" it is a very very small operation of paid staff.  They may be overwhelmed at times and unable to respond quickly to inquiries.   But then again, what would you need from them that you could not get from your local Chapter?  The true strength of TASO has always been the unpaid folks who step up to do things on their own time and with their own resources.  UIL is banking on them still doing that under the auspices of UIL.  Perhaps there are some who will but I know quite a few of us who will not do anything for TT.

[txmustang68]

Rick and Mike - very valid points.

[fencewire]

I think there needs to be a firm distinction drawn between those that support the UiL and their position and those that refuse to let politics and BS interfere with an advocation that they enjoy.

I have already seen the term "scab" thrown out as a label for anyone who wishes to uphold their commitment for this season.  That is about as positive as the UIL troll here in this forum.

I have not, at this time, registered with the UiL.  I agree with mustang, the further this goes, the more I dislike what the UIL is doing.  I was really looking forward to the "joint" statement as I thought it would go a long way to quell the vocal minority on both sides of the arguement, but as we have seen, that doesn't appear to be forthcoming anytime soon.

As far as the new lawsuit goes, I wouldn't hold your breath, I am not a lawyer, but given the fact that registration is "free" for now and your chapter can remain a TASO chapter, I can't see anyway that we as officials or TASO are immediately "injured" by this registration process.  Is it silly that we have to do it this season during the season, absolutely, but I would think that there would have to be more to get any further TRO due to the changes that UIL has made since the original lawsuit was filed, that's just my opinion and is certainly not worth a whole lot in the legal arena.

If nothing else the next month will definitely be interesting.  

[fencewire]

I agree, the accountability buzz-word is a big one, and what does it really mean, will it mean the same thing in Football, that it does in Basketball, that it does in Baseball, etc?

From talking to an officer in the local basketball UIL chapter, he stated that only two officials were summoned to Austin this past season, for what, I am not sure, who represented them, I am not sure, and who paid for that, I am not sure.

I think that if you think that little buzz word will get folks off the field that don't need to be there, I think you are reading too much into that.  As mike stated, there are simply not the reasources to even remotely get into evaluation and grading of officials around the state, the coaches cards are a joke, typically they are almost always biased as to who won and who lost and I have seen, as I am sure you all have, downgrades for things that coaches "thought" were rules.

[JasonTX]

Accountablilty needs to be handled locally.  Schools have the power to scratch an official and so do officials.  As someone stated, if enough people scratch an official he won't be able to work any games.  I serve on the board in my chapter and any complaints we get from coaches or other officials we investigate them thoroughly.  TASO or UIL will never be able to get involved in these type of issues.  We have suspended and even removed officials before who did not do a good enough job representing our chapter.  TASO doesn't need to get involved unless it is a major issue such as soliciatation.  TASO has taken action against those who were ratted out for solicitation and I know that one of them is likely the troll that is active on this site.

[txmustang68]

After reading some of these posts, I have a better understanding of how the accountability should work.  I do like the idea that un-qualified officials should be handled locally, as opposed to traveling to Austin or having a conference call with Austin.  But, members should be a little more diligent in talking to the assigners and/or chapter brass about officials that should not be on the field.  I guess that is something more chapters need to get more involved in. 
I have never liked the implied definition of "accountability" when used in conjunction with UIL.  To me, this has the connotation of being dragged to Austin at one's own expense to face a disgruntled coach that doesn't know how to coach, and having the stack decked against the official, meaning guilty until proven innocent.  I am glad, however, that the conversation of taking more responsibility of removing sad-sack officials from the field has been more prevalent.  I am tired of being embarrassed by "veteran" officials.

[DallasLJ]

[
I have never liked the implied definition of "accountability" when used in conjunction with UIL.  To me, this has the connotation of being dragged to Austin at one's own expense to face a disgruntled coach that doesn't know how to coach, and having the stack decked against the official, meaning guilty until proven innocent.  
[/quote]

  This is exactly what we face if the UIL is allowed to pursue this course.  Haled to Austin at your expense?  No defense?  No rules?  No due process?  No one to appeal to?  No one answerable for the decision?  And good news -- UIL has sovereign immunity -- so if TT, or someone else, decides that you are no loner allowed to be registered (call games), you have absolutely no recourse.

  Why again would anyone what to sign up with the UIL?

[ballhog]

I think you guys are all confusing competency with accountability. Sub par officials are always going to be a problem for the chapters to deal with, competency is a chapter issue. Accountability is answering to a body with disciplinary power as to why you made that call? Why did you remove that coach? "Accountability" is ear candy to lure coaches into the fold, give them something from their friends on Manor Rd. Keep them in line as they worry about their games in week 10.  "Accountability" is to make basketball and baseball coaches happy.

[JasonTX]

If my ability to properly judge a play has peaked and I am incorrectly seeing the plays as they actually happen, how is going to Austin going help me improve my ability to judge a play?  Unless there are some issues where there is evidence that an official is purposely doing stuff to satisfy his own agenda, then he needs to be removed altogether and it shouldn't even reach the level of him having to go to Austin.   

[fencewire]

I rewatched the sermon in Houston and the only "accountability" that was discussed was if an official tossed a coach (auto trip to Austin) for arguing a call where the official applied a rule incorrectly.

[txmustang68]

I just went to Youtube and pulled up some of TT's grandstanding.  All I can say is, after watching that ego-feeding session, I will NOT support the UIL.  That guy is a grandstanding, bragging, egotistical, power-hungry, bullheaded blow-hard.  What an arrogant piece of crap.  I need to go watch some My Name is Earl to get that ego-freak out of my mind....

[blindref757]

Hey...here's an idea!  How about forming a review panel and having the coach who is ejected write up a sworn statment and fax it in.  There is also this thing called video streaming where people can sit in front of a webcam and their image and their voice can be sent over the internet.

Sending a coach to Austin in this day and age is arcane and stupid.  If a coach gets tossed...review the facts and suspend him for a game or two and let him move on.  Who cares about having their name published in the stupid Leaguer magazine that only goes to schools.

The UIL is a bureaucracy.  A state run governmental organization that will never be as efficient or friendly as one that is run and funded by members.

That is reason enough to fight this takeover.

[txmustang68]

What a novel idea!  Technology....hmmm

[TXMike]

To:             Interested Parties
 
From:        UIL Athletic Department
 
Subject:    UIL Free Registration of Sports Officials
Just received this unsolicited email from UIL.  "We really mean it this time!!!!   We're gonna tell your mamma!"


Date:         October 1, 2010
 
The attached letter is a summary of a meeting between TASO and the UIL concerning the online free registration of sports officials for UIL contests.
 
Please review the attachment concerning the November 1, 2010 implementation of the rule change requiring UIL member schools to utilize officials registered with UIL for their contests.  Officials desiring to officiate UIL contests must be registered with UIL prior to officiating those contests.
 
On November 1, 2010 the new Constitution and Contest Rules section 1204 (officials fee schedule) for 2010-11 school year goes into effect.  This may be found by accessing the UIL website (www.uiltexas.org) under sports officials tab.  The fee schedule for each sport may be found on their specific sports page.

Information will be sent early next week to allow all UIL member schools access to view and verify a sports officials’ registration status.