Author Topic: what do you got?  (Read 1755 times)

Offline Sjref

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what do you got?
« on: September 30, 2010, 08:05:27 PM »


K 4th and 10 @R25. Ks feild goal is blocked by R. While ball is loose behind LOS, Rs bench come onto feild thinkin game was over.

What do you have here and how do you enforce it?

i believe this happened in game over weekend. Not 100% same senario but same logic.

Offline Curious

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Re: what do you got?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 09:10:57 PM »
K 4th and 10 @R25. Ks feild goal is blocked by R. While ball is loose behind LOS, Rs bench come onto feild thinkin game was over.
What do you have here and how do you enforce it?
i believe this happened in game over weekend. Not 100% same senario but same logic.

What you have is f#@%ing chaos. 

By rule (3-7-6), non-players entering during the down but not participating is a (live ball) succeeding spot foul.  So, after the play is over, a penalty should be assessed against R from wherever the ball ended up.  Since it is a live ball foul, which would obviously be accepted, re-play 4th down after assessment of a 5 yd penalty.

The posting did not indicate any end-of-game timing or inadvertent whistle scenarios (thank goodness) - but if there were an IW, during a kick, the down would be replayed from the previous spot (3-3-3c)- but the foul has to be declined (4-2-3 sit A). 

HOWEVER, IF THIS HAPPENED ON THE LAST TIMED DOWN OF THE GAME, THE GAME WOULD BE OVER; as rule 3-3-4b2 tells us that "a period shall not be extended by an untimed down if during the last timed down of the period, a non-player foul is accepted".  Of course, if the penalty is not accepted, the game would definitely be over.
 
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Go ahead guys; start shooting holes in this answer. 

ppaltice

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Re: what do you got?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 09:18:50 AM »
The nonplayers entering the field is a live ball, nonplayer foul.  We need to know the outcome of the play.  Did R or K recover it and down the live ball?  Was time left on the clock?

If no time was left on the clock and the ball was dead with no further fouls, game is over (3-3-4b2).  Clear the field as best you can, R signals the USC and then states the game is over and hold up the football.

If time was left on the clock, back up R 15 yards from the dead ball spot, 1st and 10 for R.  (I would only call one USC).

Offline Sjref

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Re: what do you got?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 11:53:14 AM »
way it was explained, time in 4th ran out. They did not enforce anything since nothing was called (Back to sideline, other official under post) .

So the foul in that situation (on feild no participation) is USC, enforced from suc. spot 15 ys, or 5 yd Illegal sub.

If players influence play would there be diff enforcement/game not over??

ppaltice

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Re: what do you got?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 12:02:55 PM »
way it was explained, time in 4th ran out. They did not enforce anything since nothing was called (Back to sideline, other official under post) .

So the foul in that situation (on feild no participation) is USC, enforced from suc. spot 15 ys, or 5 yd Illegal sub.

If players influence play would there be diff enforcement/game not over??

It sounds like the bench was entering the field not as substitutes, so it is an USC.  The Illegal substitute penalty is when a player thinks he should be in, comes on the field once the down has started.  That does not sound like the case.

If R comes on the field and influences the play, then they are Illegally participating (live ball foul) and perhaps committing an unfair act.  If K opts to take the IP foul, the period will be extended for one untimed down (declined and the game is over). 

Offline Curious

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Re: what do you got?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 12:26:00 PM »
I like both your posts PP.  Made me think more about my reply. 

1) I don't think the ball can ever be awarded to K UNLESS R's foul is called illegal participation (a live ball foul). 

2) The blocked field goal attempt was on 4th down, so regardless of who recovers the kick, unless K picks it up behind the line and runs for a first down, the ball would be awarded to R.  If it were third down, then things would get even more interesting... 

3) And any USC or non-player foul is treated as a dead ball foul; so, if time still remains on the clock, R would have to snap the ball if the penalty is accepted.

Unlikely to happen....but a good mental exercise.