Author Topic: Who can motion?  (Read 3838 times)

BrasoFuerte

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Who can motion?
« on: October 02, 2010, 11:44:03 PM »
A87 (a wide out) has established himself as one of the seven lineman on the line of scrimmage; can he go in motion and still remain one of the seven lineman? I believe he can, but can someone help me find the rule that allows this or prohibits this?

Any help would be much appreciated with this. Our crew's pride is on the line. pi1eOn

Offline Curious

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 09:12:32 AM »
A87 (a wide out) has established himself as one of the seven lineman on the line of scrimmage; can he go in motion and still remain one of the seven lineman? I believe he can, but can someone help me find the rule that allows this or prohibits this?

Any help would be much appreciated with this. Our crew's pride is on the line. pi1eOn

Rule 2-32-9 defines a player on the LOS.  Unless the player in your scenario is "in motion" facing the opponent's goal line, he is NOT on the LOS (and, by rule below, he is not eligible to be "in motion" anyway).

Rule 7-2-7 outlines who may be in motion at the snap.  Clearly, as described, your player has 1) not established himself as a back and 2) because his intial position was not as a back, is not 5 yds behind the LOS at the snap.


Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 10:11:50 PM »
A87 (a wide out) has established himself as one of the seven lineman on the line of scrimmage; can he go in motion and still remain one of the seven lineman? I believe he can, but can someone help me find the rule that allows this or prohibits this?

Any help would be much appreciated with this. Our crew's pride is on the line. pi1eOn

This is both a yes and no answer.  A87 absolutely can go in motion from a position on the end of the line.  His motion will be perfectly legal if, at the snap, he is at least 5 yards behind the LOS when the ball is snapped.  Prior to starting his "motion", however, he must step back from the line, establish himself as a back by pausing for 1 full second.

When he steps back, and establishes himself as a back, he is no longer one of the required 7 linemen necessary for the formation to remain legal.  The standard way of pulling this shift off, is that another player, who was behind the line, shifts into a position as a linemen fulfilling the 7 lineman requirement.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 06:57:26 AM »
A87 (a wide out) has established himself as one of the seven lineman on the line of scrimmage; can he go in motion and still remain one of the seven lineman? I believe he can, but can someone help me find the rule that allows this or prohibits this?

Any help would be much appreciated with this. Our crew's pride is on the line. pi1eOn

Let's be sure we are using the same (and correct) terminology?  If you mean "in motion" as he leaves his position and is moving when the ball is snapped, then the learned officials above have given you the requirements for doing so.

If you mean a more generic "in motion" implying that he "motions" to other spot on the line and resets as a lineman, that's not "in motion", that's a shift.  Different issue.

LarryW60

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 08:18:43 AM »
Al, I don't have my rulesbook with me, but I believe the rule regarding linemen in motion says UNLESS he first established himself as a back (by stepping off the line and resetting), he must be at least five yards behind the LOS at the snap if he's in motion.  I'm reading this as saying he can go in motion directly from his spot on the line, but he better be moving backwards rather quickly to get at least 5 yards back before the snap.

And obviously if he's in motion five yards behind the LOS, there's no way he can be considered one of the 7 men on the line at the snap.

In short, a wide-out on the line cannot be side-stepping along the line until the snap.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 09:55:39 AM »
Al, I don't have my rulesbook with me, but I believe the rule regarding linemen in motion says UNLESS he first established himself as a back (by stepping off the line and resetting), he must be at least five yards behind the LOS at the snap if he's in motion.  I'm reading this as saying he can go in motion directly from his spot on the line, but he better be moving backwards rather quickly to get at least 5 yards back before the snap.

And obviously if he's in motion five yards behind the LOS, there's no way he can be considered one of the 7 men on the line at the snap.

In short, a wide-out on the line cannot be side-stepping along the line until the snap.

I agree.

Offline VALJ

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 04:02:59 PM »
Al, I don't have my rulesbook with me, but I believe the rule regarding linemen in motion says UNLESS he first established himself as a back (by stepping off the line and resetting), he must be at least five yards behind the LOS at the snap if he's in motion.  I'm reading this as saying he can go in motion directly from his spot on the line, but he better be moving backwards rather quickly to get at least 5 yards back before the snap.

That's my understanding as well.  Either he backs up and sets himself clearly in the backfield, or he needs to be at least 5 yards deep at the snap.

And the end also needs to make sure that he starts his motion nice and easy so that he doesn't appear to be simulating the snap.  Though I would definitely have to see that to be able to make a call on that.

Pivo Ref

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 04:18:21 PM »
Sounds like a shift from one side of the line to the other.  If he is one of seven and then goes in motion (legally) then there is only six on the line of scrimmage, right.  But if is shifts, and gets set...

Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 08:41:17 PM »
Ok, here's a hypothetical: Team A sets in a formation with seven linemen. Then one of the backs (a flanker, say) steps slowly forward until he's on the line and, without stopping, starts sidestepping along the line of scrimmage. (No, I have no idea why a team would do this.) What do you have now?

Offline Curious

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 06:48:28 AM »
Ok, here's a hypothetical: Team A sets in a formation with seven linemen. Then one of the backs (a flanker, say) steps slowly forward until he's on the line and, without stopping, starts sidestepping along the line of scrimmage. (No, I have no idea why a team would do this.) What do you have now?

The "flanker" now becomes the 8th man on the LOS, and, as I said in my earlier post, he would be illegally in motion (Rule 7-2-7) - and, since he never stopped for a second, it would also be an illegal shift.

LarryW60

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Re: Who can motion?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 08:38:46 AM »
Illegal motion.  A noticable portion of his motion was towards his opponent's goal line prior to the snap, no matter HOW slow it was done.