Author Topic: penalty enforcment  (Read 2502 times)

Pivo Ref

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penalty enforcment
« on: October 04, 2010, 03:23:51 PM »
3rd and 15 from the 20 going in, A sweeps to the right and gets into the endzone.  Referee calls a PF late hit on a defenseless player.  An A lineman blocked a B lineman just before the runner scores, he is somewhere between the 5 and goal line.  How would you enforce the penalty?

Offline lawdog

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 03:28:02 PM »
the block was between the five and goal or the runner was when the block was made?  I'm not sure I understand the play but if I'm reading this right, you have a penalty on A behind the end of the run during the run. Enforce 15 from spot of foul and replay 3rd down. Am I reading this right???

ppaltice

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 03:29:55 PM »
3rd and 15 from the 20 going in, A sweeps to the right and gets into the endzone.  Referee calls a PF late hit on a defenseless player.  An A lineman blocked a B lineman just before the runner scores, he is somewhere between the 5 and goal line.  How would you enforce the penalty?

Liveball PF.  I am guessing the foul did not occur in the end zone, so ABO will have us penalize A 15 yards from the spot of the foul (as the end of the run, i.e. the basic spot, is in the end zone).  Replay 3rd down.  Clock starts on snap.  (If the foul occurred in the EZ, then penalize from the goal line.)

Pivo Ref

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 03:39:15 PM »
Sorry, the late hit was at the 20, about 20 yards behid the play.  And the runner is between the 5 yard line and the goal line. 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 03:41:42 PM by Pivo Ref »

Offline Jackhammer

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 03:40:07 PM »
It appears you have a live ball foul during a running play.  

The end of the run (basic spot) is the goal line.  The foul happened behind the basic spot, thus it's enforced from the spot of the foul.  So you'd repeat third down from fifteen yards behind the spot of the foul.
"The only whistle that kills a play is an inadvertent one"

"The only thing black and white in officiating is the uniform"

Pivo Ref

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 03:44:32 PM »
Jackhammer,

that is how it was enforced. 

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 03:44:44 PM »
the block was between the five and goal or the runner was when the block was made?  I'm not sure I understand the play but if I'm reading this right, you have a penalty on A behind the end of the run during the run. Enforce 15 from spot of foul and replay 3rd down. Am I reading this right???

Sounds like you're questioning should the foul be enforced as a live ball foul, which negates the score, or as a dead ball foul, whereas the score would count before the penalty was enforced.  I would suggest the safest way to handle that is to follow the actual sequence.  

When the foul is deemed to have been a live ball foul, the score will not count and the penalty will be enforced from the spot of the foul.  The offense will not be happy with the result, and the only answer to their unhappiness is "don't foul", especially if it's an unnecessary PF type behavior.

Offline lawdog

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »
I wouldn't change the actual sequence either, it was just the terminology that was getting me, late hit to me means after the play is dead.  This is run of the mill unnecessary roughness during the play, not a late hit after it.  I was just getting clarification of the OP.

With the clarification of the play I was reading it right and gave the same enforcement as pp and jackhammer and think we are all right...

Offline Bugolathe

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 11:53:33 PM »
Had an unusual one on Saturday.  80 yard run for a TD.  Runner is far ahead of everybody.  At A's 40, a B player clocks an A running alongside him.  Trailing as the R, I flag it.  At B's 40, a different A player clocks a B player running alongside him.  I toss my second flag.  All this happened before the runner scored so I have two liveball fouls.  If I'm correct, by rule I should have taken the ball back to the original LOS and replayed the down.  But after thinking about it for a moment, that would have been rewarding the defense for fouling because if they didn't foul we'd enforce a 15 yd. penalty from B's 40 and give A a 1st down at A's 45.  If I offset them, we're back at A's 20 and replaying the down.

The only fair thing I could think of to do was to bring the ball back to the spot of A's foul and offset the penalties from there.  I'm pretty sure I got this wrong.  What should I have done?

 

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 07:35:14 AM »
Your first inclination was correct -- double foul, replay the down from the previous spot.

You can't worry about the rare play (like this one) when B apparently gains from fouling.

Offline Curious

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Re: penalty enforcment
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 08:10:34 AM »
Your first inclination was correct -- double foul, replay the down from the previous spot.

You can't worry about the rare play (like this one) when B apparently gains from fouling.

Agree about double foul; but B didn't "gain" from fouling; A lost the TD by fouling! Semantics, semantics, semantics.....