Strange One In Texas

[TXMike]

I could see a TD or a touchback, but a safety?

[yt=425,350]FgnWGP-Etow[/yt]

[Dr.G]

I wondered if this was going to be posted. I saw this on the Fox Sports Friday night scoreboard show. They showed it from the other end zone view. The player that covered the ball from team B was laying past of the end line when he got possession. Should have been a touchback.

[Welpe]

Dr G, it looks like Team A recovers the ball.  Am I just seeing it wrong?

[bama_stripes]

From that video, you could have called anything and have a valid argument.  Is there not a higher-angle clip available?

[TXMike]

How could you possibly get a safety here?

[JasonTX]

How could you possibly get a safety here?

Maybe they thought the muff changed the impetus and then when the ball hit the ground in the end zone they were ruling it dead.     I have no clue, but this is really just a basic kicking play that everyone should know.  We pregame this all the time.  If Team B touches the ball and it rolls into the end zone they have to go do something with it or Team A could recover it.  If B recovers it and "downs" the ball it will be a touchback.  Did they actually stick with a safety? 

[TXMike]

IF the kick was batted by Team B and IF it then went into the EZ and IF it was then recovered by an OOB Team A Player (or went out before being recovered), it could be a safety.

I think they stayed with the safety:

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2010/10/09/conroe_courier/sports/tw_lufkin_1009_package_web_c.txt

Since the time on the TD was 6:37 and the time on the safety was 6:27, I assume the kickoff was touched (batted?) in the field of play and clock started. 

[Dr.G]

If I was more tech savvy I would post the clip from my TIVO of the High School Scoreboard show that gives a view on the end line of the opposite goal line. The team B player was laying on the end line when he recovered the ball. I've now seen it from each end with different camera views. The kick threaded its way between all team A players never changing direction towards team B goal line. The R immediately went up with the safety and the crew left it as a safety. Seeing the play on the High School Scoreboard show I immediately thought touchback. I haven't changed my opinion today.

[TXMike]

Are you confusing A and B?  White is Team A, they were kicking off.  Green is team B, they were receiving.  Green may have touched the kick but then A falls on it.

[Dr.G]

Thanks, yes I did miss write. Team A(white) does fall on the ball. The ball goes through all team B(green) without touching anyone when I watched the play on the High School Scoreboard show view. The LJ had the best view whether the team A player(white) had possession before he went through the end zone. All I can think is that the crew got confused or in a hurry in the heat of the moment with a tight, loud game and assessed the safety thinking that if team B(green) fumbled (or possibly touched in this case) the ball going backwards through the end zone then it would be a safety. It still looks odd with the R immediately going up with the safety.

[KFox1979]

I know Texas uses modified NCAA rules which allows the ball to roll into the EZ without it being a TB, but in NFHS a muff can never constitute force.  The force of a muff is the initial force of the kick.  Illegal batting is a different story, but there wasn't a flag on the play.

[TXMike]

NCAA rules only permit the muff to change impetus if it is a muff of a ball at rest.  The batting (if there was batting) would not be illegal if it was in the field of play since it would have been a backwards bat. 

[Getting Fat]

Craig Way is usually not that critical of officials, but he showed no reservations about pointing out the mistake here.  Horrible call, indefensible.

[LarryW60]

Makes me appreciate the NFHS rulebook all the more.  That play would have been blown dead as soon as it crossed the goal line.

[HAshleyTX]

so the ball rolled untouched into the end zone?

[Mark Liggett]

IF the kick was batted by Team B and IF it then went into the EZ and IF it was then recovered by an OOB Team A Player (or went out before being recovered), it could be a safety.

I think they stayed with the safety:

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2010/10/09/conroe_courier/sports/tw_lufkin_1009_package_web_c.txt

Since the time on the TD was 6:37 and the time on the safety was 6:27, I assume the kickoff was touched (batted?) in the field of play and clock started. 


Agreed, I fail to see how to get a safety out of this based on what is available to see on the clip.  Noticing that the brief window showing the clock, it has not been started after the ball passes the apparent closest player, also the crew seems to be in an on-side kick formation with the R in the middle, a few frames show him and none of them show him winding the clock (something he would surely do if the ball were touched in the field of play and he is the closest official to see that).  The news story does list 6:27 as the time of the safety but a mere 1 or 2 seconds could've ticked down on the clock had another official noticed touching and wound it, I think the 6:27 is a typo.  Touchback, should've left one arm down.......

[bacwood]

The fox sports video clearly shows the ball was not touched and should have been a touchback.

[GameWillTravel]

If you dont Know the RULES dont get on the field

[TXMike]

A fellow official brought up 2 good points.

1 - The crew (like others around the state) apparently works short free kick mechanics on all kicks.  As a result the call was left to 1 guy.  perrhaps if there had been a 2d back there they would have coordinated and got it right.

2 - Where were the other 4 guys after the fact?  How many times do you see a safety on a kickoff?  I don't know I ever have.  If a crewmate were to rule safety on a kickoff, before things got too far along, I would be inclined to ask him what happened.  Once he described what he saw, hopefully 1 of the other 4 of us would have realized the error and got it corrected.

[Welpe]

A fellow official brought up 2 good points.

1 - The crew (like others around the state) apparently works short free kick mechanics on all kicks.  As a result the call was left to 1 guy.  perrhaps if there had been a 2d back there they would have coordinated and got it right.

Hmmm, maybe 7-man mechanics are in order?  I'm all for it, never mind the fact I am looking to get on a crew. 

[Birddog]

2 - Where were the other 4 guys after the fact?  How many times do you see a safety on a kickoff?  I don't know I ever have.  If a crewmate were to rule safety on a kickoff, before things got too far along, I would be inclined to ask him what happened.  Once he described what he saw, hopefully 1 of the other 4 of us would have realized the error and got it corrected.

Mike I was thinking the same thing.  I never would just pass this off without first giving it a good review with my crew mates.  I know some who let the R do all the "thinking" on the crew, and I just don't understand how they can do it.  This is perhaps an old school type of mentality of letting the white hat run the show.  I know we can all miss things but getting together on a critical, game changing call such as this is a must.

[Skuza]

I could see a TD or a touchback, but a safety?

[yt=425,350]FgnWGP-Etow[/yt]
[Never a safety... If player is out of the EZ its a touchback I cant see the officials at all any body at the back line ??/quote]

[110]

I don't understand.
It's either a touchdown (ball touched by B, force added to put ball in EZ, recovered legally in the endzone) or a touchback (ball in endzone via force of kick.)

Egad.

[Welpe]

It can be a safety if Team B is judged to have imparted a new impetus on the ball but that is a fairly rare event.

[TXMike]

Instead of simply muffing the kick that is on the ground at the 5 , assume the returner , for some reason known only to God, bats the ball backwards, thinking if he gets it to the EZ it will be a touchback.  The ball goes into the EZ where it is "recovered" by a Team A player who is on the end line before he touches the ball.  Safety.  Rare indeed.