Ball prior to snap

[NTXRef]

This may sound very rudimentary, but we had an issue with shifting the ball around prior to the snap.  A backup center came in and starting shifting the ball to be parallel to the LOS.   My umpire and I deemed that illegal and made him keep the ball perpendicular to the LOS.

My contention is that based on 2-23-1-d (Snapping Ball) states "While resting on the ground and before the snap, the long axis of the ball must be at right angles to the scrimmage line (Rule 7-1-3-a-1)." that the ball must remain at those right angles up to the snap.

The opposing view is that this rule (2-23-1-d) is only to establish the neutral zone and based on rule 7-1-3-a-1-b (Offense Team Requirements) that states "The snapper may not lift the ball, move it beyond the neutral zone or simulate the start of a play." that along as you don't violate this tenants that anything is okay with the ball including tilting and turning.  Further argument is the "resting on the ground and before the snap" are additive in other words, of course, the snapper will move (tilt) the ball and therefore no longer be resting on the ground.   This only occurs probably in HS occasionally and more often at subvarsity (not a problem at NCAA level).

I'm really strugling with that intrepretation.  I view that as 2 separate situations "resting on the ground" - 1 situation and "before the snap" as second situation.   In other words, the right angles still have to hold prior to the snap.

What do you guys think?

[fencewire]

I think that unless he picks the ball up, moves it out towards his GL at address more than a few inches, or double pumps it, you have nothing.  If you don't like what he is doing, tell him and the coach, they will probably seek to rectify the situation, but if he is just getting comfortable and doesn't do any of the above... in my mind, you have nothing.   Oh technically you might have something, but that is really looking for nits... 

Have you ever played center?  virtually impossible to keep the ball at a right angle, "up to the snap" and have any sort of comfort.

[Welpe]

Have you ever played center?  virtually impossible to keep the ball at a right angle, "up to the snap" and have any sort of comfort.

I have and I can safely say I never turned the football so that its tips were towards the sidelines and not the goal lines. 

[T.C. Welton]

I agree with the first response.  This is something I have seen somewhat regularly in pee-wee games.  The center will turn the ball completely ninety degrees.  To me the intention of the rule is to have a clean snap that doesn't deceive the defense.  As long as the snap is consistent and clean, I doubt I would ever call this under the current rules.

[KB]

There's no room for interpretation.

2-23-1-d describes the position before the snap starts, and 2-23-1-b describes when the snap starts, ie with the ball's first legal motion backwards.

It is very clear that the ball must not be situated "sideways". It may be at an angle to the ground, but not at an angle to the LOS.

[foureyedzebra]

There's no room for interpretation.

2-23-1-d describes the position before the snap starts, and 2-23-1-b describes when the snap starts, ie with the ball's first legal motion backwards.

It is very clear that the ball must not be situated "sideways". It may be at an angle to the ground, but not at an angle to the LOS.

So, what is the penalty for not complying with 2-23-1-d?

[KB]

Since the ball was not snapped from its prescribed position, there is no legal snap.
Illegal Snap on the center, ball remains dead, same down after 5yd (or HTD) penalty.