Try in a puddle

[joeri]

Hi folks,

Something to get your point of view on.

this weekend had following issue. You should know fields out here can be awfully muddy, specially with Autumn kicking in.
Right around the 5y line there was a large puddle of water.
Try Team A ball placed by U and RFP given.
Then A noticed that they would not be able to spot the ball for a FGA, cause it was right in the middle of the pond 
From the side line coach yelled to his players to take a DOG foul, bringing the ball out of the puddle.
At this point I don't see anything unfair about this towards Team B, according to "Unfair Act" 9-2-3c. It doesn't say anything about Team A intentially taking a delay of game penalty. And time tactic is not involved.

Now freaky enough Team B has the right to decline any penalty (10-1-1b), and a declined penalty would result in the next down being whatever it would be if that foul didn't occur (5-2-25). Now since a false start or delay of game both are dead ball fouls after RFP signal and before snap, the
next down is simply the one that hasn't taken place yet.
So simply redo try.

Okay , if Team A still keeps on committing those fouls out get out of the puddle, and Team B keeps on declining them. It could be called as Unfair Act 9-2-3c, and the Try would simply be canceled without points. Otherwise you could end up in an endless loop ;-)

It gets better, actually Team A is allowed to have the ball placed anywhere on the 3y line between inbounds lines. (8-3-1-c), IF they do
so before the RFP signal. After RFP they can ask for a timeout and have the ball relocated UNLESS there was a Team A foul (or offsetting
penalties) :-) (doesn't say anything about accepted or declined penalty, but the rule does refer to 8-3-3-c1).
So after a delay of game penalty (even declined by B), Would you allow A to relocate the ball ? 8-3-3-c1 does only speak of foul by team A after successful try ...

Your thoughts.

Cheers
Joeri

[Kalle]

I think I wouldn't be too picky about the RFP and ball relocation request in this case. If team A keeps on committing a DOG foul (or similar DB foul) and team B keeps on declining the penalty, I will ask the team B coach which of the following options will his team take: team A may relocate the ball on the 3-yard line or team A will snap the ball from the middle of the field at the 8-yard line.

[Andrew McCarthy]

8-3-2-c

The snap will be midway between the inbounds lines on the opponent’s
three-yard line or from any other point on or between the inbounds
lines on or behind the opponent’s three-yard line if the position of the
ball is selected by the team designated to put the ball in play before the
ready-for-play signal. The ball may be relocated after a charged timeout
to either team unless preceded by a Team A foul or offsetting penalties
(Rules 8-3-3-a and 8-3-3-c-1).

I wouldn't have backup in the Rule Book but I would have let Team A take their time out and relocate the ball anywhere they wanted it even after the declined the DOG foul.  Anywhere between the hashes and anywhere behind the 3.

[T.C. Welton]

I agree with Andrew...by rule they are allowed to move it if enforced penalties are not involved.

[Etref]

Be proactive, know that the puddle is there and have the umpire ask them where they want the ball spotted prior to the RFP.

[Diablo]

Be proactive, know that the puddle is there and have the umpire ask them where they want the ball spotted prior to the RFP.

Good & thorough Umps ask Team A, "Where do you want the ball?" prior to each Try and following a TB and 8-4-2-b situation.  It doesn't take long to get an answer or not before the RFP.

[joeri]

Thanks all!

[110]

Be proactive, know that the puddle is there and have the umpire ask them where they want the ball spotted prior to the RFP.

^ This.

[arthurhawgerelli]

Be proactive, know that the puddle is there and have the umpire ask them where they want the ball spotted prior to the RFP.

How much leeway is allowable?  Is it just past the puddle, or is there a guideline on this?

With a PAT you could move it all the way to the hash, but isn't the placement for a field goal attempt dependent on the previous play?