Snapper Movement

[ljref86]

Center addresses ball /hands on ball, lineman have hands near knees NOT below. The center and lineman all raise up and turn to look at sidelines.
Foul or no foul ??
The defense in tonights game had a nose guard hit the center as soon as he raised up.
Both coaches had questions about this in there pregame. The approved ruling 7-1-3-v states the snapper may release ball and
turn to communicate with teammates. It does not point out any restrictions as far as raising up.
Food for thought, many teams are using this tactic in short yardage line to gain situations.

[Kalle]

False start, rule 7-1-3-a-4-b. The snapper is restricted from moving after he has touched or simulated touching the ball.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Center addresses ball /hands on ball, lineman have hands near knees NOT below. The center and lineman all raise up and turn to look at sidelines.
Foul or no foul ??

There is no foul as long as long as in our judgment any movement does not look like the start of a play.

Per rule 7.1.3.a.1.(c) "The snapper may take his hand(s) off the ball if it does not simulate the start of a play.", and per rule 7.1.3.a.4.(b) as long as any movement is not "A shift or movement that simulates the beginning of a play."

[TXMike]

False start, rule 7-1-3-a-4-b. The snapper is restricted from moving after he has touched or simulated touching the ball.

He is only restricted from moving to another position.  But if he takes his hands off the ball and stands up, burden is on him to do so in a way that doesa not simulate the start of the play

[Kalle]

He is only restricted from moving to another position.  But if he takes his hands off the ball and stands up, burden is on him to do so in a way that doesa not simulate the start of the play

I really want to see a center standing up in a way that I wouldn't flag as a false start, but I do grant that it is possible. If he first clearly removes his hands from the ball, and then slowly stands up, OK, but if he has his hands on the ball and stands up, I think I have a flag every time.

[ljref86]

I am waiting for film clip to forward to Mike for dissecting.

[TxJugster]

I always look at the defence on these plays.
If the defence reacts as if the start of the play occured then it is a false start. If the defence relaxes/ takes a knee then they didn't take the movement as the start of the play so I wouldn't call anything.

[TXMike]

Usually NOT a good idea to base a call on how a team does or does not react to something.  It is better to base it on how YOU react.  If the movement made YOU think the snap was imminent, then it is a flase start.  If not, it was not a false start no matter how the defense reacted.

[TxJugster]

If a team has a coordinated move before every play (on Down or something like that) that causes the defence to jump do you call false start or off sides?
If you had the team earlier in the season in which the defence didn't jump did you call the same move as a false start?

I know what you mean but if I don't think the move is starting a play however if the move is causing the defence to jump then I would probably call false start.

[TXMike]

If you are honest with team B's coach and he tells you he has noticed a certain thing team a does pre-snap and he wants to knoww if you wil call it a false start.  You replay "if your defense moves then it is a false start". What do you think he is gonna do?   
That is why it has to be YOUR reaction, not the team's

[NVFOA_Ump]

If you are honest with team B's coach and he tells you he has noticed a certain thing team a does pre-snap and he wants to know if you Will call it a false start.  You replay "if your defense moves then it is a false start". What do you think he is gonna do?   
That is why it has to be YOUR reaction, not the team's

IMO TXMike has the correct idea here.  The priority has to be that first we judge the movement was either a simple false start, or a movement intended to draw the defense into the NZ.  If the movement itself, with or without a response from the defense, does not have you reaching for your flag, then it probably does not warrant a flag.

[Etref]

The false start is no different IMHO than a illegal shift, it does not matter what the defense does.

The only time defensive movement comes in to play is if the defensive movement into the NZ caused the offense man who was threatened to FS.