coach has questions

[Wettstein]

Okay, I'm a coach - been one for about 19 years, football, baseball (youth/rec ball).  I know on coaches websites, that they blast and point out humoureous stories about officials, and on referee websites it is the opposite.  I am not here to blast or argue - only to learn.

So I know this one official (whom I think is a very nice guy), that will call a holding penalty if he feels the blocker's hands are pushing the defender's chest pad up 3 yards away from the neutral area. He will state it is okay as long as it is within 3 yds of the yard of scrimmage.  Okay, so I will admit holding is and can be called regardless of where the hands are (inside, outsie the body etc.).  However, if this practice (hands on chest pad) is allowed and not considered holding within 3 yards on the los, then it should be called at that point, if it is not considered holding at that point, it should not be holding regardless of the spot on the field.  The only rule I know about the 3-yd  neutral refers to blocks in the back and below the knees - but never about holding.

Can any of you help me understand this call?  If so, please let me know the NFHS rule (or other rule book) number that refers to holding within the 3 yd neutral zone.  I've tried to have this particualr official teach me about this but he can only repeat that is is okay within 3 yds of the los but not beyond that.

Thanks.

[Jackhammer]

Holding is holding is holding pretty much anywhere on the field and is illegal...as with everything there are always ifs, ands and buts.   I'm not sure I follow the blocking technique you're describing, but a hold to me is grabbing moreso than pushing

Was he potentially referring to a hold away from the point of attack?  Because while technically a hold it's a rare call.

The Free Blocking Zone does cover the blocks you're talking about and is much more technical than you're describing.

[DallasLJ]

This guy is confused.  Holding is holding is holding wherever it occurs.  Within 3 yards of the neutral zone is irrelevant.  However, holding away from the play should not be called (unless it is a safety issue of some kind).  Most officials will focus on the point of attack -- not a hold away from the play.

[KB]

The location on the field as such is meaningless. What counts is the point of attack. Holding should not be called away from the POA unless it meets the criteria of a PF, and then it should be called as a PF.

[110]

Sounds to me like buddy has some confusions with the free blocking zone (iirc) defining legal situations for Fed blocks below the waist.

[LarryW60]

The important point is, was there an advantage gained by A from the hold?  In 99.9% of the cases where the hold is away from the point of attack, the answer to that question will be "No".  In those instances we won't flag, but will do our best to make sure we let the A player know he was observed and dodged a flag only because of which way the runner went.

[AlUpstateNY]

Just a thought, but could it possibly be that you didn't quite understand what this official was trying to explain to you, and got caught up in all this 3 yard business on your own?

[Wettstein]

Just a thought, but could it possibly be that you didn't quite understand what this official was trying to explain to you, and got caught up in all this 3 yard business on your own?

I doubt it - I didn't mention the 3-yd zone, the official brought up.   In fact his first words were that the player had his arms extended and could not do that.  I asked if he meant the arms were around the player.  He said no they were extended and the player had his hands on the opponent's chest pads.  Confused, I said I thought the player was allowed to push with his hands.  He replied not outside the 3 yd zone around the los.  All of this was in a professional tone, I wasn't upset and neither was the offical.  We got on with the game.  After the game, we shook hands and I asked for a bit more clarification.  He told me that the kid had pushed the opposing player outside the 3 yd zone and once he did it became a hold. He said as long as the kid was within the 3 yd zone it was legal and not considered holding.  Again, this particular official conducts himself very well, and is good with most people.  He always takes the time to answer my questions and I appreciate that.  I was just wondering if there was a rule I din't know about.  From the comments here, I think I'm on the right page. 

[HLinNC]

Per chance has he mashed up 7-5-11b?

ART. 11 . . . It is not forward-pass interference if:

b. Contact by A is immediately made on a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone.

7.5.12 SITUATION A: At the snap, interior lineman A1 moves about 3 yards downfield and finding no one to block, retreats behind the neutral zone and blocks for A2 who eventually throws a forward pass which crosses the neutral zone. RULING: A1 is an ineligible illegally downfield. The prohibition against ineligibles downfield for A starts at the snap, and the fact A1 was no longer downfield when the pass was thrown has no bearing on the ruling.
Link to Article Note Penalty Case Ruling Rule Comment Image Table Figure Exception 

7.5.12 SITUATION B: Before A1 throws a pass beyond the neutral zone, A2 contacts lineman B1 on his line and drives him back 4 yards. RULING: Offensive pass interference by A2 because he has driven B1 beyond the expanded neutral zone. (2-28-2)

[yteside]

Rule #1...don't be nitpicky on holds; call the big ones, no one cares about the little ones. 

Rule #2...if A is pushing B in any manner (assuming not in the back) it is legal; the point, and you know this as a coach, is to get the defense off balance to control his momentum.

My suggestion to you next time with this official is to ask him to show you what he's talking about in the rulebook.  That's very acceptable to do at the appropriate time.  Too many times we rely on what we're "told" rather than what we "read".