Author Topic: Hard To Believe, But ...  (Read 8766 times)

Offline bama_stripes

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Hard To Believe, But ...
« on: October 31, 2010, 01:05:57 PM »
... according to the official play-by-play (http://tinyurl.com/2a3pup6), Nebraska kicked off to Missouri to start both halves on Saturday.

Anybody got the scoop?

younggun

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 02:55:46 PM »
I know at the beginning of the game the commentators said that huskers won... then he paused for a second and questionably said "they elected to kick?"   I thought something was not right...

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 05:51:01 PM »
I know at the beginning of the game the commentators said that huskers won... then he paused for a second and questionably said "they elected to kick?"   I thought something was not right...

The above post is the unofficial play by play.  The official play by play says the Huskers "elected to kick" in the first half.  I searched the game notes, Pellini's quotes and the player quotes, and it is never mentioned.

The wind at the start of the game was only 12 mph, I would think not enough to choose end of the field over kicking off twice.  If I had to GUESS, some team captain goofed, thinking if they kicked in one half they would automatically receive in the second half.  If so, shame on him.  He's a college student (well, at least a Nebraska student), you would think he would know better.

Offline Curious

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 09:22:36 PM »
The above post is the unofficial play by play.  The official play by play says the Huskers "elected to kick" in the first half.  I searched the game notes, Pellini's quotes and the player quotes, and it is never mentioned.

The wind at the start of the game was only 12 mph, I would think not enough to choose end of the field over kicking off twice.  If I had to GUESS, some team captain goofed, thinking if they kicked in one half they would automatically receive in the second half.  If so, shame on him.  He's a college student (well, at least a Nebraska student), you would think he would know better.

In pre-game discussions with coaches, I always want to know what their choice will be if they win/lose the toss - just so such "Goof" like this doesn't occur.  We have "corrected" captains on several occasions.  Do others think we should be doing this?

(I understand there's a difference between a HS kid and a college student - even from Nebraska - but why would we let this happen if we can avoid it?)

LarryW60

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 09:08:41 AM »
A potentially costly lesson has been learned by the team captain.  I'll bet he doesn't make the same mistake again!  ;)

hoochycoochy

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 10:23:15 AM »
The captain, a future NFL first rounder, thought that if they elected to kick in the first half they'd get to recieve in the second half just like what happens when you're playing Madden.  True story. 

Online AlUpstateNY

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 10:47:23 AM »
The captain, a future NFL first rounder, thought that if they elected to kick in the first half they'd get to recieve in the second half just like what happens when you're playing Madden.  True story. 

A great example of why it's so much better to be ignorant, than stupid.  If only ignorant, you can be taught what you need to know, stupid, unfortnately, lasts for ever.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 11:09:06 AM »
The captain, a future NFL first rounder, thought that if they elected to kick in the first half they'd get to recieve in the second half just like what happens when you're playing Madden.  True story. 

Well, then I fault Madden!  They should have a "defer" option, not an "elect to kick" option.

How can players learn the rules if Madden gets it wrong?

After all, if it's in the sport, it's in the game!


Offline HLinNC

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 12:30:01 PM »
Next thing  you know we'll be bringing Xbox controllers to midfield so the captains can make their selection.

Offline Curious

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 01:17:22 PM »

(I understand there's a difference between a HS kid and a college student - even from Nebraska - but why would we let this happen if we can avoid it?)
[/quote]

I hate to quote myself; but is there any restriction (at any level) that stops us from preventing these types of gaffes at the coin flip?

Offline Kalle

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 01:33:30 PM »
I hate to quote myself; but is there any restriction (at any level) that stops us from preventing these types of gaffes at the coin flip?

An interesting question. If you think that a college football game is partially a learning experience for the players, I'd say you should not overly babysit the choices by the players. They will make mistakes but you usually learn better from your mistakes. If you don't have an option to fail, you don't really improve.

If you think that a college football game is an entertainment event, then you have a free choice - babysit or not, it's all the same, it's just a game :)

Offline busman

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 02:24:36 PM »
12 mph wind at my back, legitimate DI kicker 99% guaranteed to be a touchback, great confidence in my defense, passing team throwing (and punting) against the wind to start.  Plus, if it was Nebraska, you know if it's 12mph sustained there are gusts to 20.  Not a bad (granted old school) strategy.  I can believe it.  Back in the day, when the three great SWC kickers of Franklin, Erxleben and Little rulesd the sport, common strategy for Texas, Texas AM and Arkansas.

NAUmp

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 02:57:45 PM »
True story from several years ago:  Home team won the toss and elected to defend the scoreboard, even after being asked twice by the Ref if he was sure. 

He and I looked at one another and wondered how we were going to explain this to the coach.   pray:;

Visitors then choose to KICK!!!!!   :!#  Told visiting HC after half what had happened and he went ballistic looking for the captain.

HS kids are just clueless sometimes.  This was all emphasized when throughout the game I heard the visiting coach screaming at his team,"I'll be glad when you graduate!"   pi1eOn

Offline Curious

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 04:32:27 PM »
True story from several years ago:  Home team won the toss and elected to defend the scoreboard, even after being asked twice by the Ref if he was sure. 

He and I looked at one another and wondered how we were going to explain this to the coach.   pray:;

Visitors then choose to KICK!!!!!   :!#  Told visiting HC after half what had happened and he went ballistic looking for the captain.


Been there!

That's why I avoid a "ballistic" coach - and continued aggravation - by getting the coach's desire before the toss and making sure it happens on the field.  This is no different than getting the decision from the coach rather than the captain (and we do that all the time).

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 07:27:16 AM »
An interesting question. If you think that a college football game is partially a learning experience for the players, I'd say you should not overly babysit the choices by the players.

Ask a D-I head coach, whose multi-million dollar salary depends on how many games he wins, whether this is a "learning experience".    ;)

Offline Kalle

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 07:30:30 AM »
Ask a D-I head coach, whose multi-million dollar salary depends on how many games he wins, whether this is a "learning experience".    ;)

Guess which school I'm in: learning experience or entertainment event? :)

Offline LAZebra

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 08:33:06 AM »
I ask the coaches in the pre-game what they wish to do if they win the toss.  If both want the same thing then the only option I give the winning captain is the option his coach wants.  If one coach wants to receive and the other wants to defer, at the toss I ask each captain if he still intends to defer/receive then I don't even have anyone call the toss; I flip the coin for show and tell the visiting captain he has won and will defer/receive as the case may be.  There is no reason to start a HS game with a screw-up that could have been prevented.
None of these fans paid to see us

LarryW60

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 09:37:10 AM »
That's fine for a high school game, but the OP was in regards to a Div I NCAA game.  I would expect a little more responsibility from their captains.

Online AlUpstateNY

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2010, 09:47:35 AM »
I think part of what is generally expected of us is that we will help prevent AVOIDABLE accidents.  Clearly, a Captain electing to "kick", or even "defend a goal" for the opening kick off should trigger a caution flag at any level.  

How you choose to deal with that caution is not as important as the fact that you choose to deal with it.  Checking with coaches before the coin toss makes sense, as does simply making absolutely sue that the Captain making that choice understands exactly what the consequences of that choice are, and repeating your instructions until he actually does understand.  If necessary, and the sense of caution persists, it's not impossible to suggest the player seek guidance (from the coin toss location) from his coach (on the sideline).

Sometimes players just get confused and hopefully we're able to recognize confusion, and within reason, assist the player in calming down, clearly understanding the choices he has available and the consequences of each.  When assured confusion is not a factor, at the NFHS level, the Captain is designated to make that selection.

Eliminating the problem is the objective, there are several ways to accomplish that and the important thing is that the way you select, works. What you don't want to do is simply be a passive witness to an AVOIDABLE accident.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2010, 11:47:29 AM »
 There is no reason to start a HS game with a screw-up that could have been prevented.
+1

neil99

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2010, 02:05:23 PM »
12 mph wind at my back, legitimate DI kicker 99% guaranteed to be a touchback, great confidence in my defense, passing team throwing (and punting) against the wind to start.  Plus, if it was Nebraska, you know if it's 12mph sustained there are gusts to 20.  Not a bad (granted old school) strategy.  I can believe it.  Back in the day, when the three great SWC kickers of Franklin, Erxleben and Little rulesd the sport, common strategy for Texas, Texas AM and Arkansas.


UHHHH if you elect to kick the other team still gets to choose what goal to defend taking the wind out of your hands....... If you picked a goal to defend then yes I can see your point

Offline TheStrippedOne

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2010, 03:09:10 PM »
In a situation like this i will ask the captain again and if he still repeats the same dum statement then thats what he gets, trying to find in any rule book or mechanics manual where it states we should stop players makeing mistakes.
Whats next listen into the huddle and when they call a dive play on 3rd and 20 we say nope you need a pass play, everything is a learning exercise and they cant learn if we keep fixing it for them. We are there to ensure that the game is played within the rules in as safe an enviroment that we can, where there to officiate, not coach thats what the shouting guy is for on the sideline you know the one with the extremly high blood pressure. ;D
Too bodly go where no Ref has gone before - or the pub whichever is easier

Offline busman

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 03:22:34 PM »
I know you're not going to elect to kick.  But if you pick the wind, do you think the other team is going to pick to kick? So Defacto, you elect to kick.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 06:23:14 PM »
I know you're not going to elect to kick.  But if you pick the wind, do you think the other team is going to pick to kick? So Defacto, you elect to kick.

True, but that wasn't the case in the Nebraska case.  In that case, Nebraska chose to kick, not which end to defend.

Someone screwed up.

Offline Rav4

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Re: Hard To Believe, But ...
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2010, 01:00:15 PM »
I think it's a safe bet the kid is not at Nebraska on an academic scholarship.  Just a hunch.