Author Topic: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska  (Read 17538 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8773
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-269
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« on: October 31, 2010, 08:43:53 PM »
[yt=425,350]IQXvrli7ajw[/yt]

110

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 09:04:41 PM »
I think the key is that the numbers on the back of the helmet show almost no sign of motion. This looked clean from the camera angles given, but I'd want the view from the R or U spot to make a more viable interp. :)

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1314
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 09:14:37 PM »
I think the key is that the numbers on the back of the helmet show almost no sign of motion. This looked clean from the camera angles given, but I'd want the view from the R or U spot to make a more viable interp. :)

Seriously?

This WASN'T helmet to helmet?  I still think the Virgina hit was illegal (and I'm no "pacifist" when it comes to hard legal hits).  But, man, this one really stinks IMHO!

But, to be fair, it's easy from the "Easy Chair"....

Offline Andrew McCarthy

  • *
  • Posts: 1010
  • FAN REACTION: +21/-6
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 10:00:06 PM »
Looks like a shot to the head to me.

The R could use some OxyClean.

Offline Osric Pureheart

  • *
  • Posts: 592
  • FAN REACTION: +18/-7
  • 1373937 or 308?
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 10:18:30 PM »
Something I've found absolutely critical in my games is that when you have a hit like this, you've got a much better chance of being able to rule definitively one way or the other if you see the player coming.  If the first I know about a hit like that is when their pads crack, and it takes me by surprise, then it's been and gone far too quickly to be able to say for sure what's happened beyond "man that was a hard hit".

If, on the other hand, I see the guy coming through unblocked and getting his head of steam on, I get a moment to prepare for there to be a big collision and make sure I'm giving it my full attention.  Makes a huge difference to my ability to make a call instead of having to go with "didn't see it clearly, no foul"; and of course, these collisions where the unblocked guy is coming from your blind spot are the hardest to get early warning on.

ABoselli

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 05:42:01 AM »
Looks like a shot to the head to me.

The R could use some OxyClean.

Absolutely. Those pants look gray.

110

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 10:19:44 AM »
Seriously?

This WASN'T helmet to helmet?  I still think the Virgina hit was illegal (and I'm no "pacifist" when it comes to hard legal hits).  But, man, this one really stinks IMHO!

But, to be fair, it's easy from the "Easy Chair"....

I didn't say there wasn't contact involving the lids of both players. But the key thing here is that a whole buncha defender body parts arrive at the same time: head, arms, chest ... the defender didn't *lead* with the helmet, and certainly didn't drop his head to make the helmet the primary point of initial force from what I could see.

Again, all the above with the proviso "from the camera angles provided."

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1314
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 10:41:10 AM »
Something I've found absolutely critical in my games is that when you have a hit like this, you've got a much better chance of being able to rule definitively one way or the other if you see the player coming.  If the first I know about a hit like that is when their pads crack, and it takes me by surprise, then it's been and gone far too quickly to be able to say for sure what's happened beyond "man that was a hard hit".

If, on the other hand, I see the guy coming through unblocked and getting his head of steam on, I get a moment to prepare for there to be a big collision and make sure I'm giving it my full attention.  Makes a huge difference to my ability to make a call instead of having to go with "didn't see it clearly, no foul"; and of course, these collisions where the unblocked guy is coming from your blind spot are the hardest to get early warning on.

Absolutely agree!  That's why I mentioned moving to avoid getting "straightlined". While we can't "catch them all", there is no need to be solely locked on the QB every second after the snap - or not being prepared to abandon your your line blocking key - when an unblocked defender has a free run at the QB.

I'm not necessarily criticizing the R here or in the Va/Fla game; but the "mechanic" you described is one we all should be using.

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8773
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-269
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 11:37:15 AM »
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/tiger-tracker/article_b7118206-e5d3-11df-80da-0017a4a78c22.html


Mizzou coach Gary Pinkel said Monday morning that MU is seeking a review from the Big 12 of a fourth quarter Nebraska hit of Mizzou quarterback Blaine Gabbert to determine whether it was an illegal helmet-to-helmet shot.

"We'll see what happens," said Pinkel, adding that either way, "I don't know if there was malice involved there."

As for Gabbert, who took a lot of punishment, at one point in the second half tried to call a timeout MU didn't have and seemed slightly dazed after the game, Pinkel said he was "doing really well" and had looked good at practice Sunday evening.

Without suggesting Nebraska had targeted him illegally, Pinkel said, "They got after him pretty good, but he's in really good shape."

Still, initially asked about the high hit, Pinkel tried to clarify which one, suggesting he believed there were several.

But he alluded directly only to the review of the one by a blitzing Courtney Osborne, which resulted in Gabbert fumbling but the play ruled dead with no penalty called - perhaps an officiating compromise that left both sides upset.

Different angles, not to mention different lenses of beholders, have created a debate over the question of intent and just what Osborne could or should have done differently.

Either way, given scrutiny of such hits in the NFL recently, Pinkel added, "It's a hot topic, and it should be."

Nebraska on Saturday had played without special teams ace and reserve linebacker Eric Martin, who was suspended for a flagrant hit against Oklahoma State.

Late in the first half, MU defensive back Kenji Jackson knocked Nebraska quarterback Taylor Martinez out of the game with a leg injury. But Jackson's was a low, lunging tackle in the open field.


boydmarq

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 02:03:23 PM »
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/tiger-tracker/article_b7118206-e5d3-11df-80da-0017a4a78c22.html


But he alluded directly only to the review of the one by a blitzing Courtney Osborne, which resulted in Gabbert fumbling but the play ruled dead with no penalty called - perhaps an officiating compromise that left both sides upset.

I was at this game and wondered why no announcement was made to the crowd by the "R" after the review.  I later watched this on my DVR and thought the same thing:  there was clearly a fumble but the replay official may have been reluctant to award Nebraska with the ball after a vicious helmet to helmet hit.

Oh, and um....   GO BIG RED!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 02:11:38 PM by BJ3 »

Offline Sonofanump

  • *
  • Posts: 327
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 02:16:32 PM »
Hit- Looks helmet to helmet, but....the defender did not launch nor hit with the crown, just ran into him face to face. 

Fumble- Did not hear any whistles, but even if so, looks like immediate recovery to me.


Offline fencewire

  • *
  • Posts: 439
  • FAN REACTION: +20/-74
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 02:23:46 PM »
I was at this game and wondered why no announcement was made to the crowd by the "R" after the review.  I later watched this on my DVR and thought the same thing:  there was clearly a fumble but the replay official may have been reluctant to award Nebraska with the ball after a vicious helmet to helmet hit.

Oh, and um....   GO BIG RED!

There was another play that was reviewed early in the game where the R announced that the "previous play is under further review" then he went to the sideline, for the apparent review, walked back out, made it ready for play and away they went, never a mention of anything else.  IIRC there wasn't even anything really to review, but after review he gave no further information, I guess we can assume that "after further review, the ruling on the field is confirmed"... 

Grant - AR

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 03:05:48 PM »
There was another play that was reviewed early in the game where the R announced that the "previous play is under further review" then he went to the sideline, for the apparent review, walked back out, made it ready for play and away they went, never a mention of anything else.  IIRC there wasn't even anything really to review, but after review he gave no further information, I guess we can assume that "after further review, the ruling on the field is confirmed"... 

Pager malfunction maybe?

yteside

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 04:24:02 PM »
Is there a specific foul listed in the NCAA rulebook that uses the term 'helmet to helmet' that I am not aware of?  I just do not seem to recall this type of infraction.

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8773
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-269
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 05:00:13 PM »
Is there a specific foul listed in the NCAA rulebook that uses the term 'helmet to helmet' that I am not aware of?  I just do not seem to recall this type of infraction.

And in fact the NCAA guidance this year was for R's to NOT announce a foul as "helmet to helmet".

AFHusker

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 06:01:46 PM »
Hit- Looks helmet to helmet, but....the defender did not launch nor hit with the crown, just ran into him face to face. 

Fumble- Did not hear any whistles, but even if so, looks like immediate recovery to me.



I agree it looks helmet to helmet, but is the defender really to blame here?  There are some screenshots in this thread (http://www.huskermax.com/vbbs/showthread.php?9078-The-Experts-(ESPNU)-on-CO-s-Hit) that appear to show the QB ducked and that's what caused the helmets to hit.


Offline Sonofanump

  • *
  • Posts: 327
  • FAN REACTION: +8/-3
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2010, 06:56:11 PM »
I am not stating helmet to helmet is a foul, I was describing the hit.  I later stated that the defender did not leave his feet and seemed like a tackle that occurred face to face.

Offline zebra99

  • *
  • Posts: 605
  • FAN REACTION: +30/-3
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 09:13:47 PM »
we're getting too hung up on "helmet-to-helmet".  there is helmet to helmet contact on every play in football - just look at the line play.  The question is whether such contact was inappropriate or illegal or whatever term you want to use.

we see this type of contct all the time - the key is that everything arrives at once - not just the helmet.  think about how you normally tackle a stand up ball carrier like the QB - you DO NOT come in with your head back, that's not a normal tackling move.  you come in with your body upright using the force of your upper body, arms, hands, chest etc.  Your head follows your chest - if you are 6 inches shorter or taller than the QB then maybe your facemask doesn't contact the QB's facemask/helmet - IMO - this is a legal hit - nothing suggests he was leading or lowering his head abnormally to create a H-to-H hit, nor was there any targeting.

Again, we have to have something more than H-to-H contact even if it's severe, to have a foul.

Offline AlUpstateNY

  • *
  • Posts: 4838
  • FAN REACTION: +344/-974
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 09:38:53 PM »
Tough call, either way, but regardless the announcer pontificating like he did was simply outrageous. 

MJT

  • Guest
Re: Another Tough Hit by Nebraska
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2010, 11:52:09 PM »
Pause it at 1:24 and it is definitely a foul for crown of the helmet to the helmet of the QB. We have been instructed to error on the side of safety for these hits. It is a tough call, but I would bet the R got a downgrade on this one.