Batting a Scrimmage Kick and the EZ

[TXMike]

You make the call

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[Atlanta Blue]

Nothing illegal.  I guess your question is, "Did the ball break the plane?"  BJ was blocked by the defender's body, SJ wasn't on the line, so no one had a good look.  Cameras weren't on goal line, so not good replay to overrule.

Judgment call, and you have told me more than once, "Can't argue judgment!" 

[Kalle]

I think the ball broke the plane but the replay cannot do anything with this, it isn't conclusive (is it even reviewable?). But, the SJ probably gets a ding for leaving the pylon early and/or not getting there in time. He would have been in a perfect position to rule on this.

Don't have my (European) mechanics manual here at work, but should the deep wings start from the pylons when the potential punt is snapped from around A-40 (or is it midfield in this play)?

[TXMike]

1 very astute observer has pointed out there was an illegal touch further away from the goal line (@2) that did not appear to get bagged nor acknowledged.

[NVFOA_Ump]

1 very astute observer has pointed out there was an illegal touch further away from the goal line (@2) that did not appear to get bagged nor acknowledged.

Would agree that the subsequent spot should be the 2nd of several "illegal touching" spots which is close to the 3 yard line (where #1 first touches the loose ball).  Not exactly sure what "spot" the bag on the ground is marking, but the initial bat was inches outside the GL, and the touching where the ball finally became dead was somewhere near the 1.  IMO the ball should have been spotted where #1 first touched the ball at about the 2 1/2 - 3 yard line, not where he slid to a stop with possession of the ball.

[Atlanta Blue]

Don't have my (European) mechanics manual here at work, but should the deep wings start from the pylons when the potential punt is snapped from around A-40 (or is it midfield in this play)?

LOS was the A45, punt was credited as 54 yards.

Did you mean A40, or B 40?

And I agree, the 2 would have been a better spot than the 1.

[Curious]

LOS was the A45, punt was credited as 54 yards.

Did you mean A40, or B 40?

And I agree, the 2 would have been a better spot than the 1.

First (for us HS guys)/illegal touching at the 6 inch line but the kick ended at the two or three; so B should snap from the 2 or 3 - right?

[TXMike]

I don't know where the player on the ground eventually gained possession but he touched it at the 2 or 3 as he started to gain possession.  So that would be the succeeding spot, even if kick "ended" at the 1 when he finally got possession.

[Grant - AR]

Don't have my (European) mechanics manual here at work, but should the deep wings start from the pylons when the potential punt is snapped from around A-40 (or is it midfield in this play)?

In the conference I work, we (deep wings) start at the pylons if the punt is made from the 50 or inside.  The mechanics manual says to start at the pylon when the ball is snapped from the B45, but we decided to extend that 5 yards just to be safe.  Plus, we have some pretty good kickers in our league.

[With_Two_Flakes]

European Mech Manual for punt coverage on 6 or 7 man crew says SJ/FJ to be at the pylon if the ball is snapped on B40 or nearer. Thats probably fine for Europe.

In my experience, European special teams are not as good (and for sure don't practice as much) as US teams. It was one of the main differences I noticed when working in Michigan and Ohio recently.

[TXMike]

With all the soccer players y'all have I don't see why you don't start at the GL on EVERY punt!!

[Kalle]

LOS was the A45, punt was credited as 54 yards.

Did you mean A40, or B 40?

I did mean A40. Granted, it sounds long but it's always easier to move up if you think the receiver is threatened than it is to move back to the pylon if the goal line becomes an issue. I seem to have completely misplaced my mechanics manual and cannot say what the EFAF (European) mechanics say - fortunately WTF helped me out here (I don't work deep wings very often as you can guess ).

TXMike, unfortunately most soccer players stay with soccer and don't join the ranks of the football players...

[TXMike]

There was more than just a goal line being threatened here.  Appears there may have been a fair catch signal given and the ball actually coming down into a pack of folks quite a distance from the GL.  The S was trying to watch some of that action and got a bit delayed dropping back to the GL.  Proof that even with 7, you are going to have holes at times, much less with the 5 most of us have to work with.

[Diablo]

LOS was the A45, punt was credited as 54 yards.

Did you mean A40, or B 40?

In line NCAA practices, "A40" designates a Team A player wearing #40, not a yardline.  Team A's forty yardline is shorthanded to "A-40".
 

[Kalle]

Proof that even with 7, you are going to have holes at times, much less with the 5 most of us have to work with.

Especially with long scrimmage kicks, yeah, you'd really need an extra pair of eyes at say around the 20 so the deep wings could stick with the pylon.

[KB]

a) soccer players usually are terrible kickers when it comes to football, especially punting. Look for other good punters to come from Aussie Rules Football (Sav Rocca!), where they are used to dropkicks of spheroids

b) in Europe, we don't time the hangtime of the punt, but the hangtime of the long snap

c) rule of thumb: everytime you are near an important line (GL, LTG,EL), you should be on said line

d) not even the B started the play on the GL

[MJT]

There was more than just a goal line being threatened here.  Appears there may have been a fair catch signal given and the ball actually coming down into a pack of folks quite a distance from the GL.  The S was trying to watch some of that action and got a bit delayed dropping back to the GL.  Proof that even with 7, you are going to have holes at times, much less with the 5 most of us have to work with.

The S should not have been looking at anything but the ball crossing the plane, and he should have been planted at the pylon to see exactly that. The B should have also been planted on the GL, not moving to it, but at the GL and not moving to get the best look. The B has his back to the F, so the F should be watching for a potential illegal block if a FC signal was indeed given by the return man. That is the proper mechanic.

[Kalle]

The S should not have been looking at anything but the ball crossing the plane, and he should have been planted at the pylon to see exactly that. [...] That is the proper mechanic.

Is there a conference which starts the deep officials from the pylons when the ball is snapped from the team A's side of the field? If you don't start from the pylon, you will have problems getting there in time.

[MJT]

We start 3 on the GL if the snap is from the 50, but if we notice a very good punter, we will if snapped from A's 45.