When is a punt no longer a punt?

[lawdog]

Play from Friday.  K punts from R45.  R1 attempts to catch about the seven and muffs.  As its rolling around toward the endzone R1 attempts to recover and the ball goes off him into the endzone where K4 recovers. 

Ruling?

Discuss: Does the second touching by R matter (new force)?  How about a K touching after R's initial would that have changed anything? 

[AlUpstateNY]

Play from Friday.  K punts from R45.  R1 attempts to catch about the seven and muffs.  As its rolling around toward the endzone R1 attempts to recover and the ball goes off him into the endzone where K4 recovers.  Ruling? Discuss: Does the second touching by R matter (new force)?  How about a K touching after R's initial would that have changed anything? 

A kick is a kick until it stops being a kick, and the ONLY 2 things that end a kick are: (1) A player gains POSSESSION or (2) the ball otherwise becomes dead.  A kick can be muffed; six ways from Sunday, involving as many changes of direction as possible, anywhere inside and beween both goal lines, by any number of players on either team and unless, or until, a player of either team gains POSSESSION it's still a kick subject to all kicking rules.

[rnusinov]

Touchback. Kick put ball in ez, once it crossed goalline, touchback.

[ppaltice]

One more addition, K touching after R has touched the ball is just a muff (not first touching).  And of course in your original scenario, K4 didn't recover the kick as the ball was dead when it broke the plane of the EZ.

[LarryW60]

Everyone's pretty much covered it.  Just one last thing to add.  Force, new or otherwise, is NOT a factor in kicks going into R's endzone.

[KB]

Everyone's pretty much covered it.  Just one last thing to add.  Force, new or otherwise, is NOT a factor in kicks going into R's endzone.

Does that mean that, in Fed rules, the impetus of a kick can not be changed?

[LarryW60]

Impetus is not used in Fed language... and leave my medical condition out of it!

Force is not a factor on kicks going into R's endzone.  This is no doubt another safety consideration at the Fed level.  ANY kick (no matter how many times it has been muffed or batted) that goes into R's endzone is a touchback.  Period.