Field goal attemts in extra periods

[Kalle]

Let's see what's your take on this play from Rom:

Conference championship.  Extra period.  Fourth and 10 on B's 25.  A7's field goal attempt is blocked.  B44 muffs the airborne kick on B's 8 and A88 recovers on B's 2.  A84 is flagged for fair catch interference on B's 9.

What next? Please quote relevant rules in your answer.

[TXMike]

I would be less concerned about FC int but more concerned about "simple" KCI. If B completes the FC, nothing happens and B starts their series. But if they are not allowed to complete a reg kick catch they are deprived of chance to score and win.fairest solution is to penalize A 15 from prev spot and replay if they want to chance it.    B could decline and series is over. I suspect they would do that in most cases so declining "by rule" is prob not that bad an option.

[NCAA-SJ]

This is actually an excellent question.  I'm going with B accepts penalty, A series over, B's ball 1st and 10 @ 25yd to start their series.

Quoted Rule: penalty 6-4-1

For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball, first down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference
foul [S33].

The foul 'awards' B the ball.  This cannot be a previous spot foul as it is not an exception listed anywhere...it has it's specific spot penalty...also excludes 10-2-4 by virtue of being a FG attempt.

So, by awarding the ball to B, A's series is ended.

Plus, we'll probably start B's series at the 12 1/2 after the UC on the coach for not liking the explanation.

[TXMike]

i am not saying the rules support a prev spot enforcement, just saying that would be a "fair' option if B wanted it (which I suspect he would not anyway).  If There is a FG attempt in extra period from the 30 and it fails but  B commits a normal PSK foul, A gets the penalty from prev spot.  That is a prettey severe penalty so i just think to be "fair", B ought to get the chance to say "go to prev  spot, mark off the yards, and try it again so maybe we can get the ball and score"

[Curious]

    B could decline and series is over.

Mike,

As I read the OP, B touched the ball at his 8 yd line (scrimmage kick beyond LOS); and A recovered at B's 2.  If B declines the penalty, doesn't that give a new series to A?

I'm not real familiar with NCAA rules but this sounds logical to me.

Also, in NCAA OT, can B advance a scrimmage kick (failed FG attempt) and run it back?  In HS, the series ends as soon as B gains possession.

[Etref]

In Extra Periods, once B gains possession A can never have a new series. A can regain possession and score but they can not have a new series.

As far as the KCI penalty, why would it not be from the suceeding spot? The next spot will be the 25 with B in possession, half the distance 1 & 10 12 1/2?

[TXMike]

In the posted play, B never had possession so A is still alive.  The penalty for KCI does not call for "succeeding spot" enforcement so that option is out.  The SJ's solution and rationale work for me.  

And can't we always go 9-2-3-c on this (obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules)?

[Kalle]

When you think about how this play should be ruled, think also how would you rule if instead of A88 recovering the ball B32 recovers the muff when grounded at B-2.

[NCAA-SJ]

To me, that would be simpler....B would take results of play, thus series over.  With A recovering the ball, Mike is correct in that (same as HS) A would get a new series; A can have multiple series in OT anyway on Saturday (i.e. just gain 10 yds).  As far as carrying over penalty to B series, the laundry list of fouls in rule 3-1-3 does not include KCI fouls, unfortunately.

Having said all that, I'd like to think this question illustrates a hole in the rules....to me, a previous spot enforcement WOULD be the most logical, but the rulebook in it's current version does not support that; unless, I've missed something...which is not out of the realm of possibility.
Personally, I'd like to see an AR on this to help me sleep at night.

[FLbackjudge]

I'm with you SJ.  Now that Rom has pointed out this hole in the rules, I know this is going to happen in my last game next Saturday (well, I hope it's just my last regular season game).  If it happens, I think we'll give the ball to B for a new series starting at the 25.  I don't want to explain to B's coach that the KCI "doesn't count" since were in extra periods, so A gets the ball at the 2.

[Kalle]

I personally would like to see this fixed so that a KCI in extra periods simply gives team B the ball for a new series. I don't like previous spot enforcement as it gives team A a new shot at scoring, and tacking it on to the next series seems excessive.

This hole is even worse than our usual "scrimmage kick, illegal touching, team B runback, fumble, team A runback for a score, hold by team B during the team A run" scenario - in that scenario you can always argue that team A should not touch the ball illegally if they want to be sure of scoring. Here, team B does nothing wrong.

[TXMike]

I personally would like to see this fixed so that a KCI in extra periods simply gives team B the ball for a new series.

If this were done and they knew the rules, teams would never give B a chance to play the kicked ball and attempt to score.  B would be seriously harmed with no "reward"  That being said, I doubt many coaches would accept a prev spot enforcement penalty anyway as they would just as soon A not get another chance and would be happy going to their series.  Carryover does seem severe.   Not sure what is equitable here.