Free Kick situation

[Aussie-Zebra]

This question appeared on Facebook - Officially Speaking and it's a thought provoking one. Judgment call perhaps ?

True or False
If on a free kick, B22 catches the ball at the B28 with his left foot in bounds and his right on the white line. It would be B 1-10 @ B28. Cite the rule.

Some say Foul Team A 6-2-1
A free kick out of bounds between the goal lines untouched by an inbounds player of Team B is a foul

Some say (me) dead ball at the catch - I cite AR 6-2-1-III
A kickoff goes out of bounds after Team B has touched it, and no
fouls occur. RULING: Team B snaps at the inbounds spot.

[TXMike]

Touching precedes possession.  That means the ball was touched by an out of bounds Team B player, hence a foul for a kick out of bounds

[Kalle]

What TXMike said. The relevant rules are:

2-10-4 touching always precedes possession
4-2-1-a a player touching a boundary line is out of bounds
4-2-3-a the ball is out of bounds when touched by a player who is out of bounds
6-2-1 it is a foul when a free kick is out of bounds untouched by an inbounds team B player (emphasis mine)

[Aussie-Zebra]

I can see the logic there.

It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player. If B22 had one foot in bounds and one foot in the air when he caught the ball and his foot came down on the line then it would be a deadball.

[Atlanta Blue]

It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player.

Then don't put the kickoff so close to the sideline!

Free kick rules are designed to encourage runbacks, which is why there is such a severe penalty for kicking the ball out of bounds (spot at the 40, although, statistically, this is not a "penalty").

Sure, the kicking team wants to give as little chance to the receivers as possible by kicking the ball toward a corner, but if you do, this is a chance you take.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Then don't put the kickoff so close to the sideline!

Can't fault the logic there....

[The Ref Thats Lef]

Touching precedes possession.

Unless the player is airborne. Still don't agree with it but it is the interpretation.

[TXMike]

Touching  is not the issue on the play you refer to. It is whether that play is inbounds or out of bounds.  But I agree with you, it is a screwy ruling.

[Diablo]

The relevant rules are:
2-10-4 touching always precedes possession
4-2-1-a a player touching a boundary line is out of bounds
4-2-3-a the ball is out of bounds when touched by a player who is out of bounds
6-2-1 it is a foul when a free kick is out of bounds untouched by an inbounds team B player (emphasis mine)

I can see the logic there.

OK
Given the logic above how would you rule on the following play?
Airborne B17 has leaped from inbounds and is the first player to
touch Team A’s free kick when he receives the ball. He subsequently
lands out of bounds with the ball in his possession.

[TXMike]

That is what 90 percent of us would have saod until AR 6-2-2-IV came out a few years ago
.

[scottv]

It doesn't seem fair to team A to be penalised for the action of a team B player.

I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.

[TXMike]

You see 'em time after time watching the ball roll towards the sideline and waiting to see if they should pick it up or let it roll out of bounds while the kickers bear down on them.  Just step out of bounds and pick it up!!!

[chymechowder]

agreed. but there are two potential problems with that gambit:

1. if the team B takes his eye off the ball to make sure he's got his foot OOB, he runs the risk of missnig the ball and team A recovering it.

2. if he does pick up an otherwise returnable ball at the B-11 with one foot OOB...there's, um, a slight chance that the ball will be spotted at the 11.

[ADD] And the video of the play will end up on this site in a thread entitled, "Missed Kick OOB Foul?" 

[Atlanta Blue]

I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.

Well, I'm not necessarily claiming smart, but we have taught our kids exactly that.

Problem is, about 90% of the officials get the call wrong, saying the receiving team "caused" the ball to go out of bounds.

I attended an official's clinic before the season started and brought up this very play.  It caused a HUGE debate and not even the clinician's would agree.  Without an appeal system, it's too dangerous a tactic in most games only because it's not a well known rule.

[TXMike]

i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.

[Diablo]

You see 'em time after time watching the ball roll towards the sideline and waiting to see if they should pick it up or let it roll out of bounds while the kickers bear down on them.  Just step out of bounds and pick it up!!!

Hell, he doesn't even have to pick it up, i.e. possess the ball.  Just touch it or bat it to emphasize contact with the ball.

i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.

Classic bravado !!   

[TXMike]

Just the facts Sir, just the facts!

[Atlanta Blue]

i guarantee you 90% of the officials in Texas would get it right and there would be 100% agreement among the clinicians. Move here.

Well, the actual play I brought up was a bounding free kick near the sideline where the receiver steps OOB and reaches inbounds to grab the ball.  I betting 90% don't get it right, even in Texas.

A friend of mine from New Mexico once said, "Texas would be a great place if it wasn't for the Texans."  Kind of like France.     

[Aussie-Zebra]

I thought I just heard a faint voice saying "Dem's fightin werds"

[TXMike]

The "bounding kick" would not give us any problems.  Bet is on.

[James]

A friend of mine from New Mexico once said, "Texas would be a great place if it wasn't for the Texans."  Kind of like France.     

Is there a lot of Texans in France?

But seriously, I would say 75-80% would get it right here. I have done it as a player twice in a game - and really streatched to touch the ball.

[fbrefga]

Is there a lot of Texans in France?

There is a Paris, Texas!!!

[Diablo]

There is a Paris, Texas!!!

And a Rome, TX,  Moscow, TX  and Dime Box, TX   

[James]

I disagree:
DIME BOX, TEXAS
Lee County, Central Texas South
FM 141 (Off Hwy 21)
Population: est. 381 (2000) 313 (1990)

That is not a lot of Texans although they might SOUND like a lot.
 

[Aussie-Zebra]

I'm waiting for a smart coach (maybe a long wait ) to tell his players to put one foot on the line and catch the ball, so they can take it at the 40.

I've been told that Wes Welker used this a lot when he was a Miami Dolphin.