Announcers allow a 5th down

[Grant - AR]

Just think of the headlines today if the announcers were actually paying attention and they were correct.                                

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/FOX-announcers-believed-Redskins-scored-on-a-fit?urn=nfl-294884

[VA-Ump]

I saw this and wondered myself because from my perspective from the Lazyboy, the receiver fell at about the B3 and the H appeared to have him short at about a 2-1/2.  If you run this clip back and watch the H as he tosses the ball back to the U, from what I can tell, he's 'giving" the U the spot at the 2-1/2 pretty definitively.  Guess they decided he made the LTG.

[sj]

Looks like the stake is at the 3 and the stupid yellow line is at the 2. Not the first time those lines have caused problems like this. The stake is gone for the next play but they left the line on the field.

[VA-Ump]

Oh you're right...

[bama_stripes]

"The players and officials knew the proper down. FOX didn't."

Imagine that.        FOX

[Frank in FL]

Oh, for the days of only one announcer in the booth a la Lindsey Nelson.  I remember he always said the punter was in "deep punt" formation.  Don't remember him ever saying "short punt" formation.  He just called the play and never interjected stupid opinions.  If these clowns Sunday would have actually been watching instead of giving us some drool, they may have seen the first down signal.  And don't even get me started on useless sideline reporters, Erin Andrews excepted of course.

[LarryW60]

This was all on the computer graphics guys in the production truck.  The talking heads up in the booth watched the yellow line instead of where the sticks were.  They even commented that the "sticks were wrong" (they were laying on the ground because it was goal-to-go).  Way to watch your monitors instead of the actual game, airheads.

After the game, Shannahan was asked about the "5-down controversy" and he didn't know what they were talking about because he doesn't have his eyes glued to a monitor "pacifier" when the game is in progress.

[Grant - AR]

This was all on the computer graphics guys in the production truck.  The talking heads up in the booth watched the yellow line instead of where the sticks were. 

From my understanding, the yellow line is put on the screen based on the stripes on the ground (like in the picture below) and not the actual stake.  I know officials who ask the chain crew to purposely put the stripe at least 6 inches ahead of the stake.  They do this so when a runner comes to the sideline and dives for a first down, he will easily make it if he hits the stripe.

[RedTD]

I don't know how the yellow line is established but if you look at the back stake and the H, they are at the 12 yard line. Additionally, the ball appears to be snapped from the 12 yard line. The LTG stake and placard are at the 3 yard line. That is a 9 yard chain ?  It looks to me that the yellow line was generated based on 10 yards in advance of the back stake. It would be interesting to see where the ball was spotted to give Wash. the first down prior to this series. All very odd !

[AlUpstateNY]

It would be interesting to see where the ball was spotted to give Wash. the first down prior to this series. All very odd !

Actually it's not all that interesting, or odd.  The Referee, who is at ground level, lines up where the ball is spotted and the front stake of the measuring chain.  When the point of the ball is beyond the stake, it's a 1st down.  Just like it's done on every Pop Warner, High School and Collegiate game where there might not be announcers or multiple television cameras.

What might be odd is why you would pay any attention to announcers?

[LarryW60]

I don't know how the yellow line is established but if you look at the back stake and the H, they are at the 12 yard line. Additionally, the ball appears to be snapped from the 12 yard line. The LTG stake and placard are at the 3 yard line. That is a 9 yard chain ?  It looks to me that the yellow line was generated based on 10 yards in advance of the back stake. It would be interesting to see where the ball was spotted to give Wash. the first down prior to this series. All very odd !

Looks to me like the ball is snapped at the 12 1/2, but the blue line is on the 12 (meaning the yellow line will be on the 2 instead of the 2 1/2 where it should be).  There's easily 1/2 yard between where the blue line is and where the ball is prior to the snap.

[cincybearcat]

I LOVE the arrogance..."the sticks on the field are incorrect"...

[Mark uk]

I still get the feeling there's something not quite right here. We are looking at the LJ and the alternate markers so they may not be perfectly aligned, but with the best will in the world I can't make the play better than snapped on the 12 1/2, caught on the 2 1/2, which at least merits a measurement given the location and the time left to play.

[busman]

Arkansas played SMU in Shreveport back during the Danny "Clueless" Ford era.  They scored on a play, and of course I knew it because I watched the line judge come in with the signal.  But evidently the entire Arkansas bench missed it, and thought they had a first down on the 3.  They ran a running play that was stopped on the one.  When the officals started to set up for the kickoff, Ford was like "WTH?"

Being at the game, I didn't hear the radio coverage.  But I was told the comon-tater-tots gave the officals heck all night about the play.

[Welpe]

I LOVE the arrogance..."the sticks on the field are incorrect"...

I found that to be rather amusing as well.

[AlUpstateNY]

I still get the feeling there's something not quite right here. We are looking at the LJ and the alternate markers so they may not be perfectly aligned, but with the best will in the world I can't make the play better than snapped on the 12 1/2, caught on the 2 1/2, which at least merits a measurement given the location and the time left to play.

What's not "quite right" is your view of the spot and how it lines up with the chains, which is not as significant as the view of the Referee, who has the opportunity and authority to call for a measurement whenever he feels the need to do so.  When there is any doubt, whatsoever, a measurement is appropriate, when there is no doubt a measurement is unnecessary.

Apparently there was no doubt.

[mccormicw]

Since we can't see the official chains, I will not mention the chains at all.  The ball appears to be snapped at the 12 yard line.  The line judge appears to have his right foot at the front of the ball.  The blue line is also on the 12.  The pass completion is clearly short of the two yard line.  As the play ends, the field judge and the line judge both come in like they have the spot.  The field judge even calls for the ball.  However, the ball goes to the line judge at the 2 1/2. 

Unless the ball was snapped 1/2 yard or more in front of the original line of scrimmage, there is no way that a first down would have been obvious.  I am not saying the R shouldn't have given Washington a first down.  I am just saying it was not obviously a first down.

Is there a possibility that the side judge or linesman signalled first down to the R based on the location of the auxillary first down marker (I didnt say "chains") and/or the field judge calling for the ball clearly past the marker?

There are lessons to learned for all of us regardless.

[LarryW60]

The point is moot.  The NFL has weighed in on this.  Washington scored on 4th down.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81cf050a/Official-Review-5-downs-in-Washington