Insight Bowl -Personal Foul

[JasonTX]

At around 14:40 in the 4th qtr.  Iowa throws an interception.  Mizzou was flagged for holding during the pass.  I didn't see another angle of the play, but a Mizzou player took a shot at the Iowa QB and was flagged for a personal foul.  What I'm not sure of is when the personal occured.  It wasn't announced as roughing the passer, but just simply personal foul, unneccesary roughness.  My thought was that it occured after the interception.  If so the penalties were enforced wrong.  They should have penalized the hold and declined the personal foul.  Instead, they declined the hold and penalized the personal foul from the previous spot.  Did anybody happen to get a video of that?

[TXMike]

I was listening on rqadio and it did seem strange. I have it recorded and will clip.

[jjseikel]

My understanding is that Missouri did not get the ball with clean hands, therefore they won't be able to keep the ball. After the COP and during the same play, Missouri fouls again creating a multiple foul and giving Iowa a choice of penalties.

[zebra99]

I wondered about that too.  But the TV video won't help I don't think.  Other than the guy who hits the QB sure looks like he knew it was intercepted before the hit.  He seeks the QB out as he was moving forward well after the pass was away.

[Ref Hutch]

It appears to me that the foul occured after the COP.  Therefore, if a penalty is accepted after a change of possession, the ball belongs to the team in possession when the foul occurred.  Except for the clean hands rule.  So the only option should have been DH against an eligible receiver and decline the PF.

[JasonTX]

My understanding is that Missouri did not get the ball with clean hands, therefore they won't be able to keep the ball. After the COP and during the same play, Missouri fouls again creating a multiple foul and giving Iowa a choice of penalties.

By declining the hold, this would leave them with "clean hands" as the personal foul (assumingly) was after the change of possession.  The personal foul after a change of possession cannot be penalized from the previous spot since it occured during a running play by Team B.  The hold was during the pass so the basic spot is the previous spot.  

[zebra99]

My guess is that the crew conferred and really didn't know the order of the fouls so penalized the PF hurting the multiple fouling team the most.  If in fact that's what happened, then I'm good with it.  The R would not be looking downfield and might well not know exactly when the interception occurred.  Likewise there's no way the deep guys know when the QB is fouled.  Often as an R you can read the crowd's reaction but in a bowl game it's more difficult.  Having said that, it sure looked like the hit was well after the pass as the QB was moving up field appearing to react to an interception.

[NVFOA_Ump]

At around 14:40 in the 4th qtr.  Iowa throws an interception.  Mizzou was flagged for holding during the pass. ......

Was the holding "during the pass", or during the return?  If it actually was during the pass then there's no "clean hands" here.

[TXMike]

Just loooked at it.  IMHO, the "hold" was really DPI.  The PF was on the return as a def lineman took out the QB on a block.  The ball seemed to be live but even if it was dead, it is doubtful he would have known it.  The QB was not moving aggressively to get into the actioon , he was kind of just walking so maybe that is what drew the flag.  Bottom line, ball was snapped at the A-30.  The "DPI" (uncalled) was at the A-45.  After the PF enforcement,A snapped at the A-45.  No harm - no foul.        

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[MJT]

By the book, you guys are correct that the defensive hold (which as TXMike stated should have been DPI) should have been the only foul that should have been enforced. It was not a multiple foul situation as if the 1st foul was declined, then Mizzou did get it with clean hands and thus Iowa couldn't enforce the UNR the way they did.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Couldn't both of the penalties potentially have been enforced?  I'd agree with the hold - defender has the A player locked up long before the ball is thrown, and the UNR happens just as we're seeing the wing official in the background hustling to get the spot which should be an indication that the B runner is down.  We've always been told to call the late hit / player out of the play cheap shots as DB fouls when there is any doubt as to the exact timing of the DB and the flag.

[MJT]

This one was not even close to a DBF. The Iowa QB was pointing, about the foul on his receiver and the hit was definitely not after tte play was over as he was very slowly moving to see that the Missou player got tackled.

[TXMike]

Couldn't both of the penalties potentially have been enforced?  I'd agree with the hold - defender has the A player locked up long before the ball is thrown, and the UNR happens just as we're seeing the wing official in the background hustling to get the spot which should be an indication that the B runner is down.  We've always been told to call the late hit / player out of the play cheap shots as DB fouls when there is any doubt as to the exact timing of the DB and the flag.

Not even close to a DBF.  And holding, even if it starts before the ball is in the air, IS def pass interference once the ball is in the air.  The holding did not stop once ball was in the air.

[NVFOA_Ump]

This one was not even close to a DBF. The Iowa QB was pointing, about the foul on his receiver and the hit was definitely not after tte play was over as he was very slowly moving to see that the Missou player got tackled.

We must be watching a different video.  The wing official who gets the spot is 12 full yards beyond the runner as he is being tackled and is hustling to the spot as he is being tackled.  His foot is visible at the top of the screen, still 10+ yards away as the tackle is being made and the runner is on the ground.  Next time we see him, just after the QB hits the deck, he's arriving at the spot.  That to me says DB foul.  Don't disagree that a DPI could have been called, but it's up to the calling official to decide that isn't it?

Would like to see a wide screen shot so we could see both the tackle and the hit on the QB in the same shot.

[cougar729]

Ok, even if the personal foul was dead ball, they should have enforced both penalties... What is the point in declining the hold and giving up 10 yards?  The Referee didnt consult with anyone from Iowa about their descision.

[TXMike]

But they were 2 live ball fouls so could only take 1

[Atlanta Blue]

I think in retrospect this morning, they missed it.  There is no logical explanation for their enforcement.

But the little hottie on the MO bench (1:01 mark) caught my attention a number of times last night.  Maybe she confused the officials as well.

[TXMike]

The net is alive with folks trying to figure out who she was.   Some are saying Pinkel's daughter but not sure.