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Author Topic: Carryover penalty into OT  (Read 20696 times)

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boydmarq

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Carryover penalty into OT
« on: December 30, 2010, 10:28:25 PM »
NC vs. Tennessee.  North Carolina starts the first overtime at the 12 1/2 yard line due to a roughing a kicker the penalty as time expires in regulation.
Can anyone point me to the page in the rulebook that addresses this?
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 10:32:43 PM »
The penalty was for uns conduct not roughing the kicker.   FR134
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 10:37:40 PM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 30, 2010, 10:32:43 PM
The penalty was for uns conduct not roughing the kicker.   FR134
thanks to the talking heads the world thought it was RTK.
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Offline 500919

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 10:48:59 PM »
Ok... that makes sense... when NC snapped the ball and spiked the ball, why was it a 5 yd foul for substitution? There seemed to be more than 11 on the field when the ball was snapped.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 10:49:54 PM »
the extras were running off   That is a simple illegal substitution foul   5 yard penalty
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Offline 500919

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 10:59:24 PM »
I must of miss counted I had 12 on the field
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 11:00:25 PM »
I just looked at it  There were  12 in the formation
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 01:02:34 AM »
[yt=425,350]ZJm2g2OpWhg[/yt]
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 08:03:50 AM »
Quote from: TXMike on December 30, 2010, 11:00:25 PM
I just looked at it  There were  12 in the formation
...and at least 5 more trying to get off the field. Talk about a cluster!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 08:40:07 AM by Rulesman »
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 08:17:32 AM »
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20101231/SPORTS0601/12310352/Bowl+loss+leaves+bad+taste+for+Vols


Vols defensive end Gerald Williams threw down his helmet after the tying field goal — a penalty that was assessed in the first overtime.
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 08:19:32 AM »
One other thing I noticed when they ran the replay series in the intermission.  The play clock was set to :40, never ran, then reset to :25 and never ran either.  It was Charlie Foxtrot all the way around.

UT deserved to lose it though.  All the had to do was get a first down.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2010, 08:38:58 AM »
Quote from: HLinNC on December 31, 2010, 08:19:32 AM
...UT deserved to lose it though....
...couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!  nAnA
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Offline williebe

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 09:45:41 AM »
12 or more on the field after the snap why didn't any one think about ill. participation? Would this not be the correct penalty for this situation? 15 yds as opposed to 5?
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2010, 09:48:31 AM »
Quote from: williebe on December 31, 2010, 09:45:41 AM
12 or more on the field after the snap why didn't any one think about ill. participation? Would this not be the correct penalty for this situation? 15 yds as opposed to 5?
Tennessee fan?  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 09:53:51 AM by Rulesman »
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Offline williebe

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2010, 10:06:31 AM »
I dont care for Tenn. Just care about calling the game correctly.
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Offline zebra99

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2010, 10:22:47 AM »
given that at least one sub (maybe more) rushed to the LOS without a huddle, should we have gone into the "holding pattern" with the U over the ball allowing the defense to "match up"?  If so, they game would have ended without a snap.

Your thoughts?
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Offline BankerRef

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 10:24:43 AM »
This situation exposed a big problem with the NCAA rules IMHO.  Essentially, as long as the snapper and QB can get together and make an exchange and get the ball spiked nothing else matters.  You can have an ill formation, everyone moving, some still downfield beyond the line, some coming in and some going out and all the offense will suffer is a five yard loss.  I would like to see the NCAA address this situation as the NFL has and assess a required time runoff so the offense cannot take advantage of this situation.  At the very least in this situation I would have given them the harshest penalty I could under the rules which would have been 15 for illegal participation.

And I do agree that with the mass substitution that was attempted that the Umpire should have held the snap.
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Offline williebe

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 10:31:57 AM »
I also agree with the U over the ball. And I agree with the harshest penalty. This I'm sure will be a topic of discussion in the off season.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 10:36:10 AM »
The "experts" in the chatroom last night agreed:
1 - the best thing would have been for the U to come up on the ball.  Time would have expired and we would not be talking about this.

2 - There were 12 in the formation and this appears to fit the definition of illegal participation so should have been 15 yards not 5.  (and IR could have helped with this but failed to)

3 - We need a rule change.  (But we on  this board have known that for some time. We have discussed situations just like this on this board several times.  Team A is able to deliberately foul and gain significant advantage with the clock)
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Offline williebe

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 10:50:47 AM »
missed you guys last was at buffalo wild wings watching game but sound was on the sa/dall game but i agree with you guys.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 10:51:47 AM »
williebe - I'm just messing with you. I hope you saw through that. And yes, I agree we want the game called right.

99 - agree 100%.
Big 10 crew (I think) - no doubt have all called games bigger than any I've worked. But personally, I thought they had the deer-in-the-headlights look for the final 31 seconds. JMO.

Bankerref - agree 100% and that same thought crossed my mind live and in real time.

TXMike - the only thing I could add to what you said is to pose a question to #2 - is this reviewable?
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 10:56:49 AM »
Reviewable   12-3-5-a

This was a fine example of 2 less than stellar teams making mistakes that drug the crew down with them.  How many times does it happen that we "play down" to the level of the teams.  Seems that may have happened here.  

These guys had a "Waterloo" moment.  I suspect they learned from it. I hope all of us who had the luxury of sitting back, far from the public eye and the chaos of the environment, learned as well.

And while we will likely never be privy to it, I suspect their overall grade will be very good.  They made some great calls and non-calls in the game.
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Offline williebe

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 11:08:30 AM »
No problem Rulesman, Have A Happy New Year.
Couldnt agree with you more TxMike.
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Diablo

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2010, 11:29:42 AM »
Quote from: HLinNC on December 31, 2010, 08:19:32 AM
One other thing I noticed when they ran the replay series in the intermission.  The play clock was set to :40, never ran, then reset to :25 and never ran either.  It was Charlie Foxtrot all the way around.

In the video earlier in this thread, it appears there are two clocks counting down, which appear to represent the game clock on the left and play clock on the right.  During the last running play, the clock on the left (game clock) is ~half sec ahead of the one on the right.  If that is the case and those images are valid for the clocks, the play clock should have been turned off at the end of that down.  Instead, when the right clock gets to 8 sec, it stops and resets to 40.  Perhaps the play clock operator realized his error.  But I think he should have reset to 00.  Maybe he couldn't do that.
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110

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Re: Carryover penalty into OT
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2010, 12:28:34 PM »
Couple observations:

A) Announcers were calling for a UR on a defender who was blocked onto a tackler. Can't these guys take a level I clinic to get a clue?

B) I think Tennessee screwed up the options on the coin toss. They elected defence, which put the ball into the opposition hands at the 12.5 yard line. Had they taken offence, they woulda been at the 40, but the opposition at the 25 on the following play.

C) I thought once a play happened, the previous play couldn't be reviewed?
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