Safety in Sugar Bowl (video link below)

[zebra99]

the layoff does make a difference.  You can study the book, watch videos and have dozens of crew meetings but nothing beats being on the field - it is what it is - I once had a 5 week lay-off after my last regular season game and I'd be the first to say I was very rusty until perhaps the 2nd quarter.  My crew chief (me) did a lousy job of getting me prepared.  

[sj]

I wonder if it's ever been considered to have the National Championship crew work another bowl sometime during the bowl season in order to cut down the amount of time they have off.

[williebe]

the layoff does make a difference.  You can study the book, watch videos and have dozens of crew meetings but nothing beats being on the field - it is what it is - I once had a 5 week lay-off after my last regular season game and I'd be the first to say I was very rusty until perhaps the 2nd quarter.  My crew chief (me) did a lousy job of getting me prepared.  

Really like your honesty zebra99

[jjseikel]

I've got forward progress at the two, a whistle, a dead ball signal and nothing else after that matters.

[DD]

If the LJ had forward progress he should have told the R so. Any time you award a score especially the play should jump out at you. So a bowl game where two mistakes were made and not one time did any crew member approach the R and talk about what they were doing.

[bama_stripes]

FP at the 2.  Defense pushed him back & was riding him laterally.

[whosyourdaddy]

FP at the 2yd line.  No way should this be a safety in my opinion as stated many times before he was driven back in the endzone and by ruling it a safety you awarded team B, 2 cheap points.  TXMike you've been silent on this play, how bout an opinion? 

[TXMike]

My initial thought was safety. But after reading things here and coordination with others, I now am in the "no cheap safety" camp.  Determining when a runner's fwd progress has been stopped is almost always a "guess".  If we are guessing, seems we ought to guess on the side of "no cheap scores". We are always going to be questioned on this. We stop the action just as the runner breaks free and we are criticized for quick whistle.  We don't stop it and ball carrier gets clobbered more and we get criticized. 
I don't know this to be true, but is it possible crew went safety expecting IR to take a look and correct if need be?

[Curious]

I wonder if it's ever been considered to have the National Championship crew work another bowl sometime during the bowl season in order to cut down the amount of time they have off.

Excellent suggestion!

[Atlanta Blue]

Excellent suggestion!

Well, the teams go 37 days without a game in between, I'm not sure there's a difference.

Personally, I think the biggest problem is moving the Championship so late.  But that's where the money is.

[TXMike]

Unlike the teams or coaches, WE are expected to NOT make a mistake.

[Curious]

Unlike the teams or coaches, WE are expected to NOT make a mistake.

Like someone once said: "Officiating is the only avocation where you are expected to be perfect the first time on the field and, then, get better each time out".

[Atlanta Blue]

Unlike the teams or coaches, WE are expected to NOT make a mistake.

Ask any fan, coaches aren't expected to make any either.  And besides, every single one of those fans in the stands knows more about it than the coaches do.

Honestly, my wife has taken to not sitting among our own fans in a game I'm coaching.  She tells me it's amazing how stupid we are in the eyes of the fans during the game.  And when those fans are parents (and in my case, affluent parents who are used to getting their way), the critcism is magnified.  Parents have not only the bias of being a fan, but of it being their child as well.  I'm sorry, but no one is unbiased when it come to their own kids.

I was once told that there are three things every man thinks he can do better than every other man: make love, grill steaks and manage a baseball team.

My steaks aren't THAT great.

[bama_stripes]

I was once told that there are three things every man thinks he can do better than every other man: make love, grill steaks and manage a baseball team.

I grill a GREAT steak.  One outta three will get you into the Hall of Fame.

[JasonTX]

Let's also keep in mind that "when in question, forward progress is stopped."

[Osric Pureheart]

I don't know this to be true, but is it possible crew went safety expecting IR to take a look and correct if need be?

Forward progress is a judgement call and not reviewable, surely?

[jg-me]

I believe forward progress is only reviewable with respect to making the line to gain.

[Kalle]

I believe forward progress is only reviewable with respect to making the line to gain.

It is possible that rule 12-3-3-c applies: "Live ball not ruled dead in possession of a ball carrier". It is also equally possible that it does not apply.

[zebra99]

I'm no IR rules/interpretations expert - I just announce what they tell me to announce.  But our understanding is forward progress can only be reviewed with respect to a first down  - 12-3-3-e.  Since 12-3-3-e is very specific mentioning forward progress but not including safeties, "statutory construction" rules dictate that not including other things like safeties was intentional, thus only what is mentioned can be reviewed.

We're told that 12-3-3-c relates to a fumble ruling on the field when the runner was down before fumbling.  With this said, if they're going to allow review of fwd progress re: first down, it's equally if not more logical to allow review regarding a safety or not!  2 points is more important than a first down.

My guess is that the rules committee will look at this one for next year because of that game.

[TXMike]

I thought all scoring plays were reviewable?

[DD]

A safety is reviewable only if it involve the goal line. In this case the goal line was not involve. Where he was initially stopped was well beyond the goal line and his supposed new forward progress was well behind the goal line.

[zebra99]

I thought all scoring plays were reviewable?

12-3-1 relates to scoring plays and only three types are listed - a. talks about live ball breaking the plane of a goal line.  not sure if this covers going out into the field of playfrom the EZ (I think it does not) but it doesn't appear to involve the issue of forward progress re: safety.

[zebra99]

A safety is reviewable only if it involve the goal line. In this case the goal line was not involve. Where he was initially stopped was well beyond the goal line and his supposed new forward progress was well behind the goal line.

agree - if the issue is only did the ball get out of the EZ before runner was down by rule - then it's reviewable, I guess under 12-3-1-a?  We had that play reviewed in a game a couple of years ago.  But if the issue is forward progress or not, not reviewable.  I recall the rules committee struggled over making any forward progress reviewable because there's so much judgment involved but decided to allow it for 1st downs.

Frankly, I don't think pure fwd progress should be reviewable at all because it's all judgment; however, spotting the ball at the proper place when the runner is DOWN or OB by rule is a good thing as it lends itself to definite spots/locations determinable by TV replay.

[blindref757]

If you would give him a TD if he broke free from the second tackle, then you have to have a second progress spot.  Therefore, safety

I agree...in the chat room that night, I said...if this happens at the 48 yard line, no way they give him the 50 as forward progress.  Safety.

We can't change what is and what isn't based on the fact that we don't want to be the ones awarding points.  Sometimes...that's our job.

[harrell12]

The minute the play ended I ruled safety and believe that was the correct call.  It's been said the defense "let him go" and "rode him parallel".  Put this play out at the 40 yard line.  If he gets hit at the 42 and pushed back to the 39 and defenders are hanging on him but he pushes them off, and then gets tackled there, you gonna put it back at the 42.  No you're not.  This is no different.  He fought off the defenders and was still on his feet and then got tackled.  Safety is the right call.