Author Topic: NCAA Rule Change Survey  (Read 18496 times)

Offline TXMike

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MJT

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2011, 03:28:58 PM »
I only said no to the "helmets coming off" question.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 06:06:30 PM »
I only said no to the "helmets coming off" question.
Adopting that change in some fashion would not surprise me. I also believe the Federation is looking at the same issue.
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Offline bossman72

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 01:02:06 PM »
I also did not support the Instant Replay change, the contact below the knee on a QB change, and the interlocked blocking change, the consecutive time outs change, and the helmet coming off change.

Online Etref

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 07:18:07 PM »
I only said no to the "helmets coming off" question.
I voted for them to have to sit out a play just like the blood rule. Maybe they will wear the correct size...........................
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 10:44:56 PM »
I voted for them to have to sit out a play just like the blood rule. Maybe they will wear the correct size...........................
..................and pull the chin strap tight!
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Livin' in the pit

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 07:49:21 AM »
..................and pull the chin strap tight!

Crikey, that drives me nuts in hockey.

Offline 6310 Forever

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 10:04:43 AM »
I thought for sure there would be some sort of proposal for a ten-second runoff concept, based on what we saw in the Music City Bowl.

Offline RedTD

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 11:02:28 AM »
I'm sure they will talk about changes other than what was listed in the survey. I guess I am interested in what they do about the Umpire's position. I know that is not a rule change and it may not be resolved until late summer but that "could" be the biggest change this year.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 12:47:05 PM »
I guess I am interested in what they do about the Umpire's position. I know that is not a rule change and it may not be resolved until late summer but that "could" be the biggest change this year.

I have noticed in the NFL playoff games that's it's very clear that the offensive linemen clearly know where the U is.  If the U being in team A's backfield becomes the standard NCAA 7-man mechanic I'm thinking that the 3 deep officials will require some revised keys for running plays.  IMO in the NFL some of the team A holding is getting pretty flagrant on the interior line play without the U in the middle.  It's really obvious with the HD camera angle looking from the angle that the U would "normally" be.  Interesting how quickly many NFL O-linemen have adopted different "blocking" techniques based on where the U is located at the snap.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2011, 08:37:53 PM »
...IMO in the NFL some of the team A holding is getting pretty flagrant on the interior line play without the U in the middle.  It's really obvious with the HD camera angle looking from the angle that the U would "normally" be.  Interesting how quickly many NFL O-linemen have adopted different "blocking" techniques based on where the U is located at the snap.
Why am I not surprised? You know the old saying... for every action, there is a reaction.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2011, 09:20:48 PM »
I have noticed in the NFL playoff games that's it's very clear that the offensive linemen clearly know where the U is.  If the U being in team A's backfield becomes the standard NCAA 7-man mechanic I'm thinking that the 3 deep officials will require some revised keys for running plays.  IMO in the NFL some of the team A holding is getting pretty flagrant on the interior line play without the U in the middle.  It's really obvious with the HD camera angle looking from the angle that the U would "normally" be.  Interesting how quickly many NFL O-linemen have adopted different "blocking" techniques based on where the U is located at the snap.

Quote
Why am I not surprised? You know the old saying... for every action, there is a reaction.

It would be a great theory, if it were true.  But it's not.  There were 67 MORE holding calls in the 2010 NFL season than there was a year ago, a 10.4% INCREASE.  In fact, it was the most holding calls made in the past 4 seasons (I didn't go back further than that, because it takes me about 30 minutes per year to pull this info).

Offenisive Holding calls by year in the NFL Regular Season
2007:  602
2008:  588
2009:  645
2010:  712

Just FYI:  The Steelers are BY FAR the most penalized team for holding (121 in 4 years), leading the league for 2 straight years.  Over the past 4 years, the Colts have held (or been caught) the least, with 55, less than half of the Steelers total.

When the NFL first tried moving the U to the backfield, I thought linemen would get caught far less.  But I have talked with a number of the NFL umpires, and to a man, they feel they can see holding BETTER from their new spot.  Most holding calls come when the lineman gets his hands outside the frame (a hooking type of hold when the lineman has been beaten), and that is easier to see from behind the offense.  Sure, the inside the frame stuff may get called less, but that's the stuff that doesn't get called in the NFL anyway.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 11:28:08 PM »
When the NFL first tried moving the U to the backfield, I thought linemen would get caught far less.  But I have talked with a number of the NFL umpires, and to a man, they feel they can see holding BETTER from their new spot.  Most holding calls come when the lineman gets his hands outside the frame (a hooking type of hold when the lineman has been beaten), and that is easier to see from behind the offense.  Sure, the inside the frame stuff may get called less, but that's the stuff that doesn't get called in the NFL anyway.

I attended a clinic a few years ago and there was an NFL Umpire going over some of the stats regarding holding calls.  The majority, at that time showed that the Referee postion made the most calls vs. the umpire.  He said pretty much the same as what you said regarding it being easier to see from Team A's side.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2011, 08:55:45 AM »
Formerly I was an Umpire, and now am a Referee.  One of the first things I noticed was that I could see holding better in the R position than in the U position (when I am looking at blocking), I'm not at all surprised to find that there were more holding calls this year with the U in the offensive backfield.

Offline Osric Pureheart

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2011, 11:01:48 AM »
Surely just looking at the number of holding calls tells an incomplete story?  IMO we also need to know how many holding calls the NFL supervisors think were missed.  It's not nearly as good gaining a number of correct calls (assuming they were graded correct) on the swings if you then immediately lose them on the roundabouts.

Offline Diablo

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 11:07:41 AM »
Consecutive Team Timeouts
The NCAA rules allow a team to be granted consecutive timeouts. Some concern has been raised about the practice of teams being granted back-to-back timeouts to "ice" an opposing kicker who is about to attempt a field goal.

What's the basis for the "concern"?  Is icing perceived to be unethical?

Offline RedTD

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2011, 11:13:55 AM »
Consecutive Team Timeouts
The NCAA rules allow a team to be granted consecutive timeouts. Some concern has been raised about the practice of teams being granted back-to-back timeouts to "ice" an opposing kicker who is about to attempt a field goal.

What's the basis for the "concern"?  Is icing perceived to be unethical?

And where is the data that it works ????

Offline JasonTX

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2011, 11:57:20 AM »
And where is the data that it works ????

I can't remember which kicker it was that said it, but he stated that he didn't mind the timeout at all because it gave him more time to prepare to kick it.

Offline Sumstine

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2011, 12:35:48 PM »
Consecutive Team Timeouts
The NCAA rules allow a team to be granted consecutive timeouts. Some concern has been raised about the practice of teams being granted back-to-back timeouts to "ice" an opposing kicker who is about to attempt a field goal.

What's the basis for the "concern"?  Is icing perceived to be unethical?

I believe the basis is that it happens late in the 2nd and 4th when all of the media stops are finished. It is extending a game that's already been paid for. Remove the extra time out and you can move on to the next game.

Offline Diablo

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 12:46:22 PM »
I believe the basis is that it happens late in the 2nd and 4th when all of the media stops are finished. It is extending a game that's already been paid for. Remove the extra time out and you can move on to the next game.

That's been my speculation.
Nothing to do with playing the game.  The concern is that consecutive TOs reduce TV's efficiency.

Online Etref

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 01:19:13 PM »
I attended a clinic a few years ago and there was an NFL Umpire going over some of the stats regarding holding calls.  The majority, at that time showed that the Referee postion made the most calls vs. the umpire.  He said pretty much the same as what you said regarding it being easier to see from Team A's side.

Well does the Competition Committee get in the act and say we don't like all of the holding calls, lets move the U back so he cannot see as well?

" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Welpe

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 02:30:17 PM »
I believe the basis is that it happens late in the 2nd and 4th when all of the media stops are finished. It is extending a game that's already been paid for. Remove the extra time out and you can move on to the next game.

Ah, so it's another BCS rule.  ;)

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 04:39:06 PM »
Offensive Holding calls by year in the NFL Regular Season
2007:  602
2008:  588
2009:  645
2010:  712

I believe (guessing a bit) from what I've seen that the majority of the "new holding" calls came on pass plays and my comment was more directed at running plays, especially those between the tackles where the action tends to be (especially at the linebacker level w/3-4 defenses). Is there any way to "split" the data to calls on pass plays vs calls on running plays?  
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 10:19:36 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 06:22:30 PM »
I believe (guessing a bit) from what I've seen that the majority of the "new holding" calls came on pass plays and my comment was more directed at running plays, especially those between the tackles where the action tends to be (especially at the linebacker level w/3-4 defenses). Is there any to "split" the data to calls on pass plays vs calls on running plays? 

No, not in what's available to me.  Someone at the NFL might be able to write some code to read the raw database, but I only have access to the team by team summaries, which list the number and type of each penalty called, and whether it was accepted or declined.

I can also check every individual player and what penalties were called on each, but they aren't sortable.  I would have to check each team to see who got caught the most.  If I had to guess, I'd go with Jonathan Scott of the Steelers, caught 7 times (one was declined - Roethlisberger's 3rd down pass was incomplete on the play).

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Re: NCAA Rule Change Survey
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2011, 03:54:30 PM »
Ah, so it's another BCS rule.  ;)

Well, FBS, perhaps. The non-BCS conferences suffer the same TV time issues as do the BCS. And there are a good number of FCS games on TV as well, although they don't have replay (yet), until they get to the playoffs.