How much talk do you take from a coach?

[the_inexperience_of_youth]

Hi all, I'm a newbie here so please be kind ...

I was working LJ today in my second ever game and the coach on my sideline is known to be a bit of a loud mouth... First half he is adamant that one of his players was horse-collared (he wasn't) and spends a couple of minute grumbling away about how we're putting his players in danger and how he's going to send the game film to my association. He wasn't doing it in my face so I pretty much just ignored him...

Second half and one of his players gets cut-blocked completely legally. Again he grumbles away "I'm going to report you to the association... You're jeopardising my players' safety... yadda yadda yadda". Then as he's walking away, he says (quite loudly I may add) "That was a BS call" (well he didn't say "BS" but if I type what he actually said, it'll probably get swear filtered). I wasn't sure if it was actually directed at me so I kept my flag in my pocket but now that I've though about it, I'm pretty certain I should have slapped a USC on him regardless.

Basically my question is; would you have flagged the guy in the situation explained? How much chat do you usually let slide from a coach?

[JasonTX]

Every official has a different level of verbal complaints / "assaults" they can take.  Having restraint like you did shows that you are in control and not agrivated.  The coach may have just been trying to get into your head so you would "give" him a call.  Never stoop to the level of the coach and respond in the same manner as he does.  Remain calm and in control of yourself.  The real answer to your situation is difficult to answer because we would have to be there to see how we would react.  Since you didn't throw a flag, then I'd say he didn't cross the line that you have to draw for yourself.  In some situations that perhaps you did miss a call, you can apologize to the coach that you missed it.  It's quite difficult for a coach to argue with an official who agrees with him.   

[FredFan7]

What level of play are we talking about?

At the high school level where I work, the "BS" comment, since said loudly for all of his team, some opponets, and probably some fans to hear, would draw a flag from me.  I'd just ignore the rest of the grumbling - typical coach.

At the high school level (14-18 years old), in my mind, when a coach uses R-rated language to critique my judgement or competency in a volume that can be heard by others, my flag flies.  If he talks to you in a voice that only you can hear, address it man-to-man.  The less you say, the better.  If a coach or player accuses me of being dishonest or cheating, the flag flies.

One response I have to a coach who has a major beef with a call I made is, "Coach, if the film shows it (the play) the way you describe, then I missed it."  Who can argue with that?

[Etref]

One response I have to a coach who has a major beef with a call I made is, "Coach, if the film shows it (the play) the way you describe, then I missed it."  Who can argue with that?

If he still keeps on and on after that, "COACH THAT IS ENOUGH". Usually does the trick.

[GoodScout]

I'm a big fan of the "Coach, that's enough" comment.

Puts the ball in his court instead of yours. If he chooses to continue denigrating your professionalism after that, then the flag on the ground is his fault, not yours.

One area where I don't give any quarter is when his comments insinuate that me or my crew has been "bought off" or lack integrity. A coach that asks "how much is the other team paying you?" gets a USC flag with no warning. I had one assistant who drew a flag for this and then immediately followed up with an F-bomb directed at me. Hope he had some good CDs in the car in the parking lot, because that's where spent the rest of the game.

[ljudge]

If he still keeps on and on after that, "COACH THAT IS ENOUGH". Usually does the trick.

Take RickWts' advice literally.  Don't ever make those "If I hear X ONE more time..." kind of comments.

[Etref]

Exactly, you should never tell a player or a coach " if you do that one more time". If it is bad enough to flag "one more time" it is bad enough to flag now........

[LarryW60]

Under NFHS rules, there is no distinction as to who the profanity was directed at.  If it's at you, the opposing players, the weather, or even Lady Luck, profanity gets flagged.  Whether or not they're talking to you when they say it is irrelevant.  In my case my hearing is not what it used to be, so if I can hear it, then it's guaranteed that it was loud enough for a flag.  I was working a 7-man game (between Catholic private schools, natch) where there was a double-turnover on one play.  As the second turnover is being advanced, a coach on my sideline yells out, "I don't f***ing BELIEVE that!!" to nobody in general.  The Side Judge dropped a flag at his feet and the coach was all confused.  He didn't even remember using the f-bomb.  It's still a flag though because it was definitely loud enough to be heard all over the field.

If they're moaning about a play that happened a couple of plays ago, I usually tell them, "Let it go, Coach.  That play's over."  If they ever start complaining about having to play against TWO teams that game, or otherwise imply that your impartiality might be suspect, that's an immediate flag with NO warnings.  My first year I had a JV coach doing that all game and his players started believing him.  By the end of the game they had given up trying because he convinced them they couldn't win.  When I brought it up afterwards, all the veterans asked me why I didn't flag it.  I said "because he didn't use profanity".  They set me straight.

[the_inexperience_of_youth]

What level of play are we talking about?

At the high school level where I work, the "BS" comment, since said loudly for all of his team, some opponets, and probably some fans to hear, would draw a flag from me.  I'd just ignore the rest of the grumbling - typical coach.

At the high school level (14-18 years old), in my mind, when a coach uses R-rated language to critique my judgement or competency in a volume that can be heard by others, my flag flies.  If he talks to you in a voice that only you can hear, address it man-to-man.  The less you say, the better.  If a coach or player accuses me of being dishonest or cheating, the flag flies.

One response I have to a coach who has a major beef with a call I made is, "Coach, if the film shows it (the play) the way you describe, then I missed it."  Who can argue with that?

This was a college game here in the UK if it makes any difference...

I completely agree that if he had actively accused me of cheating then the flag would have been straight out. I'm pretty thick skinned as a person anyways so I let his comments slide, my problem is that by not penalising him, I'm setting a dangerous precedent that if another official flags him next week, or whenever, for doing it (which they're fully within their rights to do) then we as officials will appear inconsistent.

[Osric Pureheart]

It's your second game, chill out.  I always say that in order to get any good at making a particular call or dealing with a particular situation, you have to do it before you're quite ready and make a balls of it - that's experience.  The trick is getting it right the next time - a mistake is only a true mistake when it's repeated.

[RedTD]

Re: Rickwts comment. I like it. A hockey official once told me about a partner who told the coach "If I even hear you breath you're getting a penalty" Sure enough as the official skates away there is a loud sigh from the bench. Penalty logged into the penalty sheet was "breathing" !!!!

[VALJ]

Take RickWts' advice literally.  Don't ever make those "If I hear X ONE more time..." kind of comments.

Especially "Coach, I don't want to hear another word."  Then, you've really backed yourself into a corner - even if he says "OK", either you've lost credibility, or you're getting a complaint about flagging somebody for saying something completely innocent.

"Coach, that's enough" works very well on not only the football field, but the baseball and softball field, too, as I discovered years ago...

[VALJ]

Oh, and Mr. "Inexperienced", welcome to the site.  There's a lot of things I've picked up here that have helped a lot, taking advantage of the collective experience of everyone here.

[TheStrippedOne]

If his comments are getting to the point of your thinking about them and loseing concentration on what you need to be doing then hes getting close to the line, my normal response to something like youve described is "sorry what was that coach" if he repeats it he gets the flag just for being that stupid, if he doesnt he suddenly knows that hes getting close to drawing the flag and that tends to put them on the defensive and shuts them up. It helps in setting boundaries with coaches, let them know yes ill enjoy a certain amount of banter, more than that then there in trouble.

[AlUpstateNY]

my problem is that by not penalising him, I'm setting a dangerous precedent that if another official flags him next week, or whenever, for doing it (which they're fully within their rights to do) then we as officials will appear inconsistent.

Thank you for being concerned about, "next week", but understand and accept you have no control, or responsibility, for any next week.  Hopefully we each get better every game we work, so what may have happened last week, or anywhere else, doesn't count today. 

"They allowed that last week" is on the same level as "the dog ate my homework".  We each get to draw our own line as to what may be acceptable commentary and what is not.  That is really the only "consistency" we each are responsible for.  All of the above suggestions are successful when they're presented so the target believes you mean them. 

You might also want to develop "the look", that is the look your mother or father gave you, that froze you and left no doubt that whatever you were doing (or saying) needs to stop immediately.

[James]

That's a goot tip. I'm working on it right now with my 2 year old... Not perfect yet, but getting there. I'll see how it works on the field this year!

[HLinNC]

A rule of thumb I learned in baseball...it may have been the late Ron Luciano- anything prefaced or followed by the word "you" gets the heave-ho.

[T.C. Welton]

I am not sure how many wingmen have a quick chat with their coach before the game, but I am strongly in favor of it.  It is usually less than a minute and goes something like...

Hello Coach <insert name>, I'm T.C. Welton and I will be the official on your side of the field.  If you have any questions during the course of the game we will get them answered for you and we will give you numbers after a penalty.  Help me out on the sidelines so I can focus on the game and not the sideline.  I will always treat you with respect, lets keep it professional and have a great football game.

I agree with two of the comments in particular on this thread.  "Coach, that's enough" almost always helps settle them down.  Secondly, if they get personal directed at me or in a load manner, the flag has been thrown by him in my opinion.

On the other side of the token, I believe in good communication with the coach.  Often they have legitimate questions as to what happened or what is going on with a particular situation.  I believe in giving an answer if approached appropriately.  I will put up with almost any amount of yelling until it becomes a distraction from my duties or gets personal.  Too often I have seen coaches with legitimate questions getting ignored by officials.  If the play is imminent, just say Coach, I will be happy to explain after this play.  Working with the coach goes a very long way to establishing a positive relationship and credibility.

As you go up in the levels, you will get fewer coaches who don't know the rules and more who know when they are about to go over the boundary.  The two combined lends itself to a more "official friendly" atmosphere.

[GoGoGo]

Our coaches almost always want a long explanation after every play because they think they saw this or saw that and if a flag is on the ground they always want a detailed description of what happened. We don't have time to do this after every play or flag and it is not our job to do this. This just disrupts the flow of the game and buys extra time for the coach.

Then when you receive your evaluation of the game you will hear that you did not communicate with the coach because he didn't give him a detailed description of what happened after every play or every time he wanted one.

[LarryW60]

As a linesman, my workload between downs is a bit more than the other wings.  When the coach wants an answer and it's relatively quick to answer, I'll give it to him, but if he's asking why that flag went against his team on the far side of the field, there's no way I can answer that before the next snap.  The best I can give him is an, "I'll try and get an answer for you after this play, coach."  We always try and relay numbers to the sidelines and once I was even chewed out for giving it to the coach when he didn't want it.  In those cases I just make a note of it and don't relay any more numbers for that game.

[GoGoGo]

Our wings do the same. However that is never good enough for the coach so he is yelling at the Referee for a more detailed explanation.

[AlUpstateNY]

Our wings do the same. However that is never good enough for the coach so he is yelling at the Referee for a more detailed explanation.

If your suggestion that, "It's NEVER good enough" is accurate, rather than a frustrated generalization, it would indicate that your approach is simply not working and you should consider changing it.  The above suggestion from T.C. Welton is spot on.  Setting a cooperative tone before the game and establishing that you are willing to be of assistance when possible cannot hurt and often will set a better tone for most coaches.  If not, you've tried to set a correct tone and the failure to do so is that coach's responsibility.

I can't tell you whether you should loosen up or tighten up, but it sounds like what you are doing simply isn't working.  There are basic approaches to dealing with hostile people (in any circumstance) you might research.  Perhaps it's your delivery, perhaps it's your body language.  On the other hand, there is no proper way to placate someone who insists on being an idiot (ranting and raving on a football field requires idiocy).  When that is who you are dealing with you need to be able to deal with him, usually the quicker the better.  As Patrick Swazy suggested in the movie "Roadhouse", "You need to be nice, until it's time not to be nice".

[GoGoGo]

TC approach is exactly what we instruct on wings to do and it is never enough. Also my wings do exatly what Patrick said.
It is not me personally because I am not a wing guy and haven't been for years. I work Umpire or Referee.

I was simply trying to get a feel for what other regions and officials do. This year I am going to address it in my pre-game meeting with the coaches and I will remind then that we are not required to explain what happened every play or give them a number but rather a good gesture on our part and that my crew will be willing to do whatever we can to get this information to him as soon as possible. However if he wants a detailed explanation we simply can't do that. If he feels we made an error in the application of a rule to call for a coach referee timeout to discuss.          

Maybe we should start a rotation where we go to different regions to officiate games.

That sort of approach works during playoffs.    

[LarryW60]

If the coach is indicating we did something wrong in applying a rule, the first question out of my mouth is, "Coach, do you want a coach/referee conference?"  That usually quiets them down, but sometimes they do take it.  The question has a double-benefit of silencing a coach who only THINKS a problem occurred and providing time for a coach who KNOWS a problem occurred to get the error resolved.

The majority of communication from the coaches on my sideline would not fall under that category, however, as the majority is usually of the "why didn't you see/call that (fill in the Foul of the Day here)?!  That kind of question is NOT directed at a misapplication of the rules.

[GoGoGo]

Good points Fadamor.