How much talk do you take from a coach?

[AlUpstateNY]

The majority of communication from the coaches on my sideline would not fall under that category, however, as the majority is usually of the "why didn't you see/call that (fill in the Foul of the Day here)?!  That kind of question is NOT directed at a misapplication of the rules.

When a coach respectfully asks, "why didn't you see/call that" I've found simply asking , "what did you see" when he answers there is really only two responses possible, "No, I didn't see that" or "Yes, I saw that but don't think it was a foul".

[GoodScout]

One thing I try and focus on when I white hat (JV and middle school games only) is making sure I don't get in that zone where I'm chatting just with my Umpire and leaving my wings out of the loop.

I insist on numbers for every foul and make sure they get relayed to my wings. Since a lot of time my wings are first or second year guys, I try and make sure they understand what's happening with fouls so that they can communicate it to their coaches. During time outs, if I need to explain something that happened earlier to them, or just think it's a learning opportunity, I'll wave them in for a second to explain. I'm usually pretty laid back about coming to the sideline to explain something that's a little out of the ordinary, but I won't let it become a habit. The problem with an R explaining something to one sideline without them burning a time-out is that you're pretty well obligated to hustle to the other side so the other coach won't feel left out, and then you've slowed the pace of the game down dramatically.

Finally, when I announce penalties I always announce them loudly enough that the sideline (and those in the stands with good ears) can hear. To wit, something like. "During the play; holding on the offense. Penalty is 10 yards from the spot of the foul; repeat first down." That usually lets the coach know what's happening on at least the home sideline, and it lets my LJ (who may be calling one of his first games) figure out what's happening too. Plus some day should I ever have a game big enough for me to be mic'ed, I won't be unprepared.

[Dommer1]

Verbalizing even when you have no mike is great training for when you do, and a lot of people can also hear you without a mike, so no reason not to do it.

Just thinking about your announcement of that hold there. You gotta post the play here, if you ever call a dead-ball hold. 

[AlUpstateNY]

Finally, when I announce penalties I always announce them loudly enough that the sideline (and those in the stands with good ears) can hear. To wit, something like. "During the play; holding on the offense. Penalty is 10 yards from the spot of the foul; repeat first down." That usually lets the coach know what's happening on at least the home sideline, and it lets my LJ (who may be calling one of his first games) figure out what's happening too. Plus some day should I ever have a game big enough for me to be mic'ed, I won't be unprepared.

Sounds like a good attitude and sensible planning.  You likely will work important games where you're mic'ed and the effort your expending and habits your forming will pay huge dividends.

[GAHSUMPIRE]

Verbalizing even when you have no mike is great training for when you do, and a lot of people can also hear you without a mike, so no reason not to do it.

Just thinking about your announcement of that hold there. You gotta post the play here, if you ever call a dead-ball hold. 

Do people not say the information out loud when not mic'ed?

I learned that you should always do it. Saying it out loud gives you the opportunity to ensure that you are enforcing it correctly, and at least some of the other officials should be able to hear it and verify your action or correct you if there was an error. They can then relay the information to their sidelines if the coaches cannot hear it.

I've been mic'ed a couple of times in games, and in those situations I also announced the information in my preliminary signal (with the mic off) so that the crew could hear and correct me if I made a mistake before I turned the mic on for the world to hear it.

When I started at R, I was trained to always announce live ball or dead ball, the foul, the penalty and from where it is being assessed, and then what the situation will be when the ball is next put in play. So while there will never be a dead ball holding penalty, and that part of the announcement may be unnecessary, I think it is a good idea to do it to be consistent.

[Osric Pureheart]

"During the play" is sometimes not important or useful to know; but "during the run" or "before the pass" or "while the ball was loose" often is.

[El Macman]

"During the play" is sometimes not important or useful to know; but "during the run" or "before the pass" or "while the ball was loose" often is.

Good guidelines. Generally, don't need to say "during the play," but occassionally, it can be helpful. Might have two fouls during the play, and a DB foul after the play. Then, it would be helpful to announce, "There were two fouls during the play - offiside, #92, defense; holding, # 55 offense. Those fouls offset. After the play, personal foul, #77 defense. That's a 15 yard penalty and an automatic first down." But, for a single live-ball foul, shouldn't need it.

[GoGoGo]

Is a Personal Foul an automatic first down?

[Dommer1]

Is a Personal Foul an automatic first down?

NCAA rules, yes it is.

[GoGoGo]

Gotcha - that's what I figured. Thanks.

[VALJ]

I learned that you should always do it. Saying it out loud gives you the opportunity to ensure that you are enforcing it correctly, and at least some of the other officials should be able to hear it and verify your action or correct you if there was an error. They can then relay the information to their sidelines if the coaches cannot hear it.

I've been mic'ed a couple of times in games, and in those situations I also announced the information in my preliminary signal (with the mic off) so that the crew could hear and correct me if I made a mistake before I turned the mic on for the world to hear it.

When I started at R, I was trained to always announce live ball or dead ball, the foul, the penalty and from where it is being assessed, and then what the situation will be when the ball is next put in play. So while there will never be a dead ball holding penalty, and that part of the announcement may be unnecessary, I think it is a good idea to do it to be consistent.

That's what I've been taught as well, though I have yet to work even a AAA game, much less a game where I'd be miked.  If I say it out loud, somebody on the crew can stop me when I say something stupid.

[Aussie-Zebra]

Latest issue of Referee magazine (March 11) has an interesting article on page 11 regarding an assistant Ref in a D-I soccer game in Ohio walking off because the Referee wouldn't support him and sanction an abusive coach.

Was he justified in his action or over reacting ?

[AlUpstateNY]

I don't know what the respective rules in that particular Soccer match provide, but it doesn't seem that it would EVER be appropriate for a official to walk away from a contest over ANY dispute with another official.  I don't know if an "assistant referee" has the authority to directly discipline an unruly coach.  If given that authority he should simply utilize it without involving the Referee, if not and the rules place that authority exclusively in the hands of the referee, then the other officials must bow to the referee's judgment in this regard.

Allowing a disagreement between officials to reach a level where one leaves the field, or would be sent from the field seems totally unacceptable, under any circumstances.  Should a dispute reach that level of disagreement, it should be settled away frm the contest, after the contest with the governing body of the officials organization. 

[James]

I assume soccer is like rugby. The ref has total say and is only 'advised' by the assistants (for instance if someone was offside, they raise a flag, but the ref decides if he will shut down the play).
Appart from that, I disagree with Al.
We don't know how abusive or threatening the coach was. If I reported it to get him tossed and there was no action taken, and I felt threatened - yes I would leave. I will look after my safety before I look after anything else on the field. If there was nothing I could do directly, and the referee did not support me.. Yes, I would consider leaving.

[With_Two_Flakes]

I'm a REFEREE mag subscriber too and I read that Soccer story with interest myself.

In the past, Soccer was definitely a Referee with two linesmen who only made minor decisions - possession on an out of bounds ball, offside, etc. My understanding of the way Soccer works nowadays at the higher levels (such as that game) is a crew concept just like we have in Football. Indeed FIFA changed the name from linesman to assistant referee to mirror the chance in philosophy whereby the assistant can flag for a foul. At the very top levels (such as the English Premier league), the Referee and assistants have radio communication and are able to talk to each other the whole game.

If I work a Football game and my Head Linesman flags a coach, then I am not in a position to overrule him. I wasnt there, I dont know exactly what happened so I have to trust my fellow crew member. If he tells me the coach has to go, then he goes - I have to trust my crew.
Clearly we dont know the full story, but you have to stick together as a crew. It is permissable as a crew chief to ask "Are you sure?" but if a crew member sticks with it, then you have to go with it.

[LarryW60]

Any time someone gets tossed <cough> er... disqualified here, it has to be included in the report by the referee to the Association Commissioner along with exactly what was said/done to cause the disqualification.  This is true whether coaches or players were disqualified.  As such, the referee has to have a good understanding of what went on and therefore can't just rely on trusting the wing's decision.

[AlUpstateNY]

The extent of reporting, and the detail required, of a disqualification is a purely local matter, and may vary considerably.  Although it is expected that the Referee would normally have, or have been given, “a good understanding of what went on” it is not his function to either second, or overrule, another official’s decision to disqualify either a player, or a coach.

Aside from a second USC foul, where disqualification is automatic, a single disqualifying incident would be of a flagrant nature, or an accumulation of repetitive negative behavior that reached a flagrant level.  The judgment of the calling official is the usual deciding factor. 

[VALJ]

Strictly from my personal opinion, I WANT to be questioned when I tell my WH that I've got a disqualifying foul.  Here in Virginia, when a person disqualifies themselves from further participation in a game, they also have to sit at least the following game.  Two games if it's for a fighting disqualification.  Before I tell a player or coach that he's gone for that long, I want another person who's not involved in the heat of the incident to confirm that I'm making the right decision.

The version of this that I'm NOT a fan of, though, is when a player does something and the ejection's not enforced when it's clearly deserved.  I was working BJ in a game last year in a blowout, and one of the wide receivers for the team getting crashed came up from a tackle with a two-handed shot to the face of the guy who tackled him.  Blatant shot, no way it was any sort of "football action".  The R (who I really respect as an official) signaled the foul, but then went to the coach and said "you can sit him the rest of the game, or we can eject him."  If it was a borderline situation, I've got no problem with "saving the player" (as we call it around here), but not for a flagrant action like that. Kid's got to learn that losing his cool is going to cost him, IMHO.

[TampaSteve]

Hi all, I'm a newbie here so please be kind ...

I was working LJ today in my second ever game and the coach on my sideline is known to be a bit of a loud mouth... First half he is adamant that one of his players was horse-collared (he wasn't) and spends a couple of minute grumbling away about how we're putting his players in danger and how he's going to send the game film to my association. He wasn't doing it in my face so I pretty much just ignored him...

Second half and one of his players gets cut-blocked completely legally. Again he grumbles away "I'm going to report you to the association... You're jeopardising my players' safety... yadda yadda yadda". Then as he's walking away, he says (quite loudly I may add) "That was a BS call" (well he didn't say "BS" but if I type what he actually said, it'll probably get swear filtered). I wasn't sure if it was actually directed at me so I kept my flag in my pocket but now that I've though about it, I'm pretty certain I should have slapped a USC on him regardless.

Basically my question is; would you have flagged the guy in the situation explained? How much chat do you usually let slide from a coach?

I know I'm jumping in late here, so this may have already been another person's take.
To me, it all depends on how loud he's chirping. If just he and I can hear it, I'll chirp back.
BUT if he's degrading me & a fellow official loud enough to where his players and/or the stands can hear it.
I dont understand he saying, "that was a BS call" - nothing was called.
Nevertheless, loud ranting/raving obviously directed at you, the crew or alleged poor calls "showing you up", in my opinion, are flagged quickly.

 

[saofficial(aust)]

Coming in late on this discussion.
I don't get it for those that want to keep the flag in the pocket and think this is controlling a situation? Just what part of the game was this a positive part for the official and at what point did it make a negative impact on the officiating fraternity?
Any one of the players being surrounded by the coach could be a potential official in future but to allow a coach to carry on like that outside the normal behaviour of sportsmanship and humanity is stooping to his level as it it. Throwing a flag on poor sportsmanship takes guts and to allow crowd control procedures to interfere with the mental health of an official can lead to a life time of trouble for a fellow official as being seen to be weak and vulnerable. We as leaders must stand up and teach the younger generation where the line is being crossed so that we can ensure we have young blood following behind us, otherwise why would they join up?
Throw the flag will teach him the boundary not to step past and ensure your mental well being for the future when he stands on your sideline next time. Making comments that are ill founded by your judgement and that of your crew members must be flagged or you risk not having new members in the near future.
Let the ranting and raving happen in Pro sports but anything lower than that needs a firm hand.
Anyhow I agree 1 to tell the coach he needs to stop making comments and then if he continues to flag it, but if bad enough the first time then flag it right away.

GM

[Bob M.]

That's a goot tip. I'm working on it right now with my 2 year old... Not perfect yet, but getting there. I'll see how it works on the field this year!

REPLY: Since many coaches act like two-year olds, it might just work.



Also, as a general rule when dealing with coaches: Answer questions, but don't answer statements. "That was the worst call I've ever seen" should not be answered with your rationale for making the call, or argue with the coach over his statement. Best to let that just go in one ear and out the other.

[HLinNC]

In baseball I was taught anything prefaced or appended by the word "you" got the heave-ho.

Much of how much you take is based on he level of play you are officiating- the things I've heard college coaches say to a wing official in one game would get a youth coach run out of the league, maybe for good.  In our state, the guiding principle given to us from above is that athletics is an extension of the classroom and thus if you wouldn't say it in school, you really shouldn't say it on the sidelines.  Now we aren't prudes by any means so some minor swearing is usually tolerated as long as its not excessive or extremely vulgar.  If it is directed at an opponent or personally to an official, then the flag should be thrown.

The boss should usually get more leeway than the help.  I do not mind talking to assistants and will answer their questions as long as they don't become argumentative or excessively whiny or get in the way.

If you kicked a call or maybe, might of, sort of kicked the call, you need to realize that you're going to have to take your medicine for a moment or so.