Punt plays

[elewis023]

1.  A 4/15 @ B40.  A's punt bounces at the B-2 and goes into the EZ untouched by B.  While standing in the EZ, before the ball touches the ground, A89 bats the ball back into the field of play where B56 recovers at the B-3.
Ruling?

2.  A 4/15 @ B40.  A's punt bounces at the B-2, then bounces off of B25, and into the EZ.  While standing in the EZ, before the ball touches the ground, A89 bats the ball back into the field of play where B56 recovers at the B-3.
Ruling?

3.  A 4/15 @ B40.  A's punt bounces at the B-2, then bounces off of B25, and into the EZ.  While standing in the EZ, before the ball touches the ground, A89 bats the ball back into the field of play where A82 recovers at the B-3 and runs in for a TD.
Ruling?


Are all of these plays illegal batting?  What about illegal touching in #1?

[Hawkeye]

No, all 3 are not illegal batting.  Play 1 is an exception to the illegal batting rule (9-4-1-c) and is governed by kicking rules (6-3-11), note that 6-3-11 is an exception to 9-4-1-c.

In play 1, we have illegal touching by team A in the team B endzone, team B has the option of taking the result of the play (B 1/10 B-3) or they may elect B 1/10 B-20 (6-3-2-a) since rule 6-3-11 tells us that the spot of illegal touching violation is the B-20.

In both Plays 2 and 3, we have illegal batting (9-4-1-c) since the ball was touched by team B.

Play 2 - Team B has three options, 1. decline the penalty - B 1/10 B-3 (unlikely), 2. Accept the penalty enforced at the previous spot - A 4/30 A-45, or 3. Accept the penalty enforced at the spot where team B has the ball (B-3) - B 1/10 B-18.

Play 3 - First of all it is not a TD since the status of the ball is still a kick (2-15-1-c, 6-3-6-a).  So if team B declined the foul it would be - A 1/G B-3, but team B will accept the penalty enforced at the previous spot - A 4/30 A-45.

[6310 Forever]

In 2 and 3, wouldn't A89 just take possession of the ball and score a TD?  In both scenarios, the ball was touched by Team B and went into the EZ, where B better recover it because it's a free ball.  I know I've been off for a while, but am I missing something?

[Hawkeye]

Well ... he should. But usually the mentality of players near the goal line on a punt is to keep the ball out of the end zone.  If he misses the fact that the ball was touched by team B, then he is going to do what he was trained to do and bat it back into the field of play.

[DD]

If A can legally touch the ball you have illegally batting the ball. Otherwise it is illegal touching. No score in 3 because it is still a kick since A82 was the first to gain possession.

[sj_31]

Why on #2 and #3 could you not have B 1/10 @ B-35 because:

1. 6-3-11 is the exception to "wiping off" illegal touching when there is a foul, and this spot can be used as a spot of penalty enforcement.

2. 6-3-13 / 10-2-4 state that we can tack on all fouls by A during a scrimmage kick (except FG attempts) from the subsequent dead ball spot.

The question is if the 'subsequent dead ball spot' can be the B-20 because of the illegal touching in the EZ.

[Hawkeye]

Why on #2 and #3 could you not have B 1/10 @ B-35 because:

1. 6-3-11 is the exception to "wiping off" illegal touching when there is a foul, and this spot can be used as a spot of penalty enforcement.

2. 6-3-13 / 10-2-4 state that we can tack on all fouls by A during a scrimmage kick (except FG attempts) from the subsequent dead ball spot.

The question is if the 'subsequent dead ball spot' can be the B-20 because of the illegal touching in the EZ.

In Plays 2 and 3 there is no illegal touching since team B first touched the ball.  In both of those plays, if the team A player had his wits about him, he would have just caught (recovered) the ball in the endzone for a TD.  His action, batting the loose ball constitutes a foul for batting (see references in previous post), not illegal touching since team B has already touched the ball.  We can tack on the penalty in Play #2 as I stated (option 3), but the tack on spot is the result of the play. the B-3 not the B-20.  In play #3 team B does not have legal possession so the penalty must be accepted at the previous spot.  Rule 6-3-11 does not govern play 2 or 3 because of the team B touch.

[sj_31]

You're right! Misread the question. thanks!