Author Topic: Changing balls  (Read 15258 times)

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Harry

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Changing balls
« on: April 06, 2011, 02:17:27 PM »
I have a question about rule 1-3-2. 

Each team may use any referee-approved ball of its choice to free kick or start
a new series of downs. If a touchdown occurs following a change of possession
and the scoring team did not put the ball in play, any referee-approved ball may
be used for the try.

I always took that to mean that A must use the ball from the time they start the series until B gains possession.  Another official says that it means that A can rotate in a new ball every first down during the possession because it's a "new series of downs."  Is that correct?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 02:44:03 PM »
Read 5-1-1
Also read 1-3-3.

LarryW60

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 10:31:30 AM »
It can be changed on any first down here, but we allow it to change more often during wet weather or grass.  I think the main reason for this rule is to prevent teams from using a "kicking ball" only on fourth downs.  We've had teams try to get a "kicking ball" approved that looked 6-months pregnant and had a mirror-shine on the leather.  They looked absolutely HURT when we told them that their kicking ball did not meet specs.  For those that weren't obviously out of spec, the rule regarding when new balls could be brought in prevented an advantage that was not obvious.

RickKY

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 08:59:55 AM »
As the umpire, I will change a ball whenever I see fit to do so.  I take a towel on the field with me, and use it to keep the ball playable.  If the water and/or sloppy conditions dictate changing balls often, I do so.  Wing officials work with the ball boys to hav a clean ball ready to switch in anytime.  If the ball boy fails, his mistake.  Wing officials will sometimes let me know that Team A wants to switch balls.  I will determine if that happens, and mostly I allow it.  Sometimes it is not necessary and I reject the request.  My R knows this and trusts me to make that decision.  We cover it in pregame and during the coaches' conferences also.

If it is raining and the field is muddy, I can do very little about dry balls, but I can help muddy balls.  Muddy balls get rejected quicly and often.  I'll protect the ball from rain the best I can, but the bottom line is, we're playing with a wet ball in the rain. 

As long as the balls are inspected and approved by the crew before the game, I'm okay switching balls as I see fit.  Weather and field conditions should dictate how many balls to approve and use in the rotation.  The trick we use is to relay information about a ball switch before the snap, and switch it after the play ends.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 10:32:26 AM »
We will switch balls when the play ends in a side zone or incomplete pass.  We will switch when the U requests it.  Here in the South, heat and humidity may dictate changing more than usual.

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 02:34:18 PM »
Fad, Rick and HL, I do exactly like you do and yes I make the decision.
Big Ump


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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 04:00:45 PM »
I know it's not FED rules, but "in these parts", we rotate balls on EVERY play, just like the NCAA guys do.  Some crews want the new ball being handed to the wing, some wanted it handed to the deep man on that sideline (we have 6 or 7 man crews), some even have the ball boys bring it straight to the U.  But it gets changed on every play.

Some teams use a "kicking ball", and I have had many officials ask before the game to see the "kicking ball".  As long as it still meets game specs, they seem to allow it.

I coach kickers, and we don't bother with a "kicking ball".  Remember, that slick as glass pumpkin that is hard for a returner to catch is also hard for a punter to catch on the snap from center.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 04:54:40 PM »
Kicking ball situations in my career- 2.

#1) Visiting Ballboy hands me a punkin' on 4th down, I hand it back and I chide  both of them for handing me an unapproved ball.  I suggest that they put it away in the ball bag for the rest of the evening.  Next 4th down for the visitor's, here comes the punkin' again.  I toss it back and tell them it best not reappear.
An assistant overhears the conversation and inquires what the problem is so I explain.  He grabs the ball, pulls out a pocket knife, and stabs it 2 or 3 times.
AC then asks "did that solve your problem?"
"Well, uh, yeah, I guess it does."

#2) Halftime is winding down and the visiting kicker starts to head out with a ball he was warming up with.  Our U had already picked one up and was waiting for K to come out to the 40.  I call for the kicker to come back and tell him there is already ball out there.
K- "But I need this ball."
me- "Why?"
K- "Its my kicking ball"
me- "Lemme see it."  (enter bloated, faded, ball with the feel of soft suede)   "Sorry bud but this ball isn't approved."
K- "But its MY kicking ball" 
Coach- "What's going on?"
K- "He won't let me use my kicking ball"
C- "Why can't we use that ball?"
Me- "Its not been approved, Coach, and my umpire already has a ball, let's go"
C- "But its our kicking ball."
Me- "Fine, but it better be the first ball I get on your next offensive series."
C- "Son, go put the ball up."

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2011, 03:23:05 PM »
I know it's not FED rules, but "in these parts", we rotate balls on EVERY play, just like the NCAA guys do. 

What AB said.  Since we play football in the summertime, there's very few nights when the ball doesn't get wet from something on every play.  (And NO cheerleader jokes, please!)

Offline GAHSUMPIRE

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 04:51:53 PM »
During pregame we address the situation with the coach and ask how often they would like to change balls. When I run U, I tell the coach, and then the ball boys directly, that they will be running the ball out directly to me. If the ball becomes dead in a side zone, they are to run the new ball to me, we leave the old one where it is, I spot the new one, and the ball boy then takes the old on his way offf the field. I do this because wings have other things to do between snaps,  several wings I have worked with could not master the art of the underhanded toss (ok, my hands aren't exactly what they used to be either), and it looks sloppy chasing down bouncing balls- wet or dry.

On PAT's I have them either put the ball to be used on the kickoff under the goal post so my deep judge can relay it to me quickly if the ball boy has to chase the kick try, or I have them stand at the goal line and hand me the kicking ball as I make my way back up to the 40. The ball they give me is the ball they will use.


Offline BIG UMP

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 09:11:13 AM »
About 6 years ago we quit letting ball boys on the field.  The give the ball to the end men who relay it to me.   We work 5 men.  When at an NCAA game it is totally different.
Big Ump


"EVERY JOB IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT.  AUTOGRAPH YOUR WORK WITH EXCELLENCE."~unknown

Offline Tom.OH

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 10:51:00 AM »
Kicking ball situations in my career- 2.

#1) Visiting Ballboy hands me a punkin' on 4th down, I hand it back and I chide  both of them for handing me an unapproved ball.  I suggest that they put it away in the ball bag for the rest of the evening.  Next 4th down for the visitor's, here comes the punkin' again.  I toss it back and tell them it best not reappear.
An assistant overhears the conversation and inquires what the problem is so I explain.  He grabs the ball, pulls out a pocket knife, and stabs it 2 or 3 times.
AC then asks "did that solve your problem?"
"Well, uh, yeah, I guess it does."

#2) Halftime is winding down and the visiting kicker starts to head out with a ball he was warming up with.  Our U had already picked one up and was waiting for K to come out to the 40.  I call for the kicker to come back and tell him there is already ball out there.
K- "But I need this ball."
me- "Why?"
K- "Its my kicking ball"
me- "Lemme see it."  (enter bloated, faded, ball with the feel of soft suede)   "Sorry bud but this ball isn't approved."
K- "But its MY kicking ball" 
Coach- "What's going on?"
K- "He won't let me use my kicking ball"
C- "Why can't we use that ball?"
Me- "Its not been approved, Coach, and my umpire already has a ball, let's go"
C- "But its our kicking ball."
Me- "Fine, but it better be the first ball I get on your next offensive series."
C- "Son, go put the ball up."


I was working with a veteran R several years ago. One team showed him the "kicking ball" they wanted to use. He called the QB over, tossed him the ball and said this is the ball you will use for the first series. QB said NO WAY will I use that ball. R handed the ball to the coach and said if your QB will not use it your punter will not use it either and walked away. We never saw that ball again that night.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. And inside of a dog, it's to dark to read."
Groucho Marx

LarryW60

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 01:15:43 PM »

I was working with a veteran R several years ago. One team showed him the "kicking ball" they wanted to use. He called the QB over, tossed him the ball and said this is the ball you will use for the first series. QB said NO WAY will I use that ball. R handed the ball to the coach and said if your QB will not use it your punter will not use it either and walked away. We never saw that ball again that night.
Nice.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 12:37:16 PM »
About 6 years ago we quit letting ball boys on the field.  The give the ball to the end men who relay it to me.   We work 5 men.  When at an NCAA game it is totally different.
Ball boys have no business being on the field.
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Offline VALJ

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 12:01:59 PM »

I was working with a veteran R several years ago. One team showed him the "kicking ball" they wanted to use. He called the QB over, tossed him the ball and said this is the ball you will use for the first series. QB said NO WAY will I use that ball. R handed the ball to the coach and said if your QB will not use it your punter will not use it either and walked away. We never saw that ball again that night.

I love it - I'm going to have to remember that one!

TIGERBAIT

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 01:09:16 PM »
My umpire and I carry a hand pump and air gauge. You'd be surprised how many balls we find with 6-8 pounds of air and thats after they have played five games. We have the coach give us the game balls and we check and mark them. I also tell him that these are the only balls we will be using. They all have the proper amount of air and we don't have to worry about "kicking balls".  We also tell the boy boys about the marked balls. We control when we need a new ball. My umpire will signal the end man and he will either pass a new one to him or if we have a qualifed ball boy, we'll let him run it in. Hopefully the teams us female ball boys. They pay attention to the game and do a great job in our area. The reverse is the 7-8 year old coach's son.


LarryW60

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 02:07:46 PM »
I have to agree that some of the best ball "boys" I've worked with as a linesman were girls.  There have been a FEW that were next to worthless, but the two best ball handlers I've worked with were girls.  They hustled, they paid attention, and they hustled some more.  If I could have paired one of those two girls with a particular chain crew for a school who ALSO hustle, but not until we tell them to move, I would be in Linesman Nirvana.

Offline James

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Re: Changing balls
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2011, 12:32:18 AM »
... but the two best ball handlers I've worked with were girls. ...  in Linesman Nirvana.

Slow down there!

All kidding aside I've also found female support on the sideline tends to pay more attention and cause less headaches. Only one problem was when I had the cheerleader coach standing next to me the whole game, she was very distracting to me.