ILB on Kick Return

[foureyedzebra]

Player at 33 yd line, narrowly escapes season ending, if not career ending injury.

Who should be focusing on this block on 5 man crew?

[yt=425,350]g34Qd42XfbE[/yt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g34Qd42XfbE

[El Macman]

Player at 33 yd line, narrowly escapes season ending, if not career ending injury.

Who should be focusing on this block on 5 man crew?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g34Qd42XfbE

This is precisely what the L must see. I suspect he was either looking way downfield at the receiver, or way into the middle of field, rather than the point of attack. But, kickoffs are difficult enough with 7, much less 5.

[VALJ]

The up man on that side should have it, I would think.  There's an outside chance that the deep man on that side might see it looking though on a kick return straight up the field, but with a reverse happening he'd be looking at the backs.

[HLinNC]

The deep official that should be behind the receiver out of view would have the ball.  The nearside official on the K 40 would have the block.

[LarryW60]

In our mechanics, the deep official on that side would have the runner.  The official at K's restraining line (my position) would have the blocking on that side.  We're taught not to go running down the sideline in case the runner breaks free for the goal line because if they do, we BETTER be at the goal line to watch them cross.  With the advantage of a nice, high angle and a few taps of the rewind button, I'm able to see that initial contact was on the thigh-pad of the defender.  At ground level from 25 yards away and without a replay, I probably would have held the flag because it looked like initial contact could have been at the waist.

[TxSkyBolt]

In our mechanics, L has the ball carrier and B has those blocks in front.

Best regards,

Brad

[El Macman]

This is precisely what the L must see. I suspect he was either looking way downfield at the receiver, or way into the middle of field, rather than the point of attack. But, kickoffs are difficult enough with 7, much less 5.

Ah - I identified the wrong position letter - should have said this what the "B" should see. The "L" is back on the goal line, with progress, etc. The "B" is on A's restraining line, so he has to pick up this block. (Some time back, the B was on the goal line and the L was up, but I'm showing my age).

[Mike L]

Stop the tape at :10 to see the block. But what else do you see? I see the exchange about to happen at the 20, but the nearest K is at the 32. What is the great need to be "on the ball" at this point? It's already been caught, you're watching nothing. If there is a deep goal line cover, and I imagine there is with the WH on the opposite side, then I would think he should be off the ball and looking at blocks at this time. The other sideline guy on this side should also be looking at blocks. But back to the "freeze time". This is the only block happening on this side of the hash. There's about a 5 yd gap between all the other opposing players. So, to make a short story long, I think either of the guys on the near sideline could/should pick this up.
On another note, what's the point of having 2 guys on K's restraining line? I would think it would be better to have 2 on R's line.

[El Macman]

Stop the tape at :10 to see the block. But what else do you see? I see the exchange about to happen at the 20, but the nearest K is at the 32. What is the great need to be "on the ball" at this point? It's already been caught, you're watching nothing. If there is a deep goal line cover, and I imagine there is with the WH on the opposite side, then I would think he should be off the ball and looking at blocks at this time. The other sideline guy on this side should also be looking at blocks. But back to the "freeze time". This is the only block happening on this side of the hash. There's about a 5 yd gap between all the other opposing players. So, to make a short story long, I think either of the guys on the near sideline could/should pick this up.
On another note, what's the point of having 2 guys on K's restraining line? I would think it would be better to have 2 on R's line.

A few years back, the change was made to put two officials (U opposite pressbox, B on pressbox side) on the Team A restraining line, to better observe for offside by Team A. This was generated by the proliferation of short 'pooch' kicks that have been popularized in the past 10 years or so. Greater vigilance on the offside fouls would force the teams to be more careful, and help reduce the number of possible KCI situations. It was a very painful and controversial change for the TASO membership, but it appears to have had the desired effect.

[foureyedzebra]

Stop the tape at :10 to see the block. But what else do you see? I see the exchange about to happen at the 20, but the nearest K is at the 32. What is the great need to be "on the ball" at this point? It's already been caught, you're watching nothing. If there is a deep goal line cover, and I imagine there is with the WH on the opposite side, then I would think he should be off the ball and looking at blocks at this time. The other sideline guy on this side should also be looking at blocks. But back to the "freeze time". This is the only block happening on this side of the hash. There's about a 5 yd gap between all the other opposing players. So, to make a short story long, I think either of the guys on the near sideline could/should pick this up.
On another note, what's the point of having 2 guys on K's restraining line? I would think it would be better to have 2 on R's line.

This is the answer I was looking for. IMO, this is the area in which we as officials need more training. We must be able to recognize when there is nothing to watch in our immediate area and learn how to switch our focus to the "hot spot" and not just scan an area. If we do not focus on the hot spot and just scan an area everything is a blur. We must teach our newer officials this concept for the sake of player safety.

[jjseikel]

Apparently this is a clip from a HS game in Texas. With the inability of kickers to reach the end zone, I fail to see the need of having two officials on the goal line.
Using NFHS mechanics, the U would have been positioned on the 20 and in perfect position to see this action.

[Sumstine]

Apparently this is a clip from a HS game in Texas. With the inability of kickers to reach the end zone, I fail to see the need of having two officials on the goal line.
Using NFHS mechanics, the U would have been positioned on the 20 and in perfect position to see this action.

Jay, this is a designed short kick and most high school kicks end between the 5 and the 15. The goal line setup is much better than the NFHS turn and run for the pylon mechanic. The trailing official should be keying on this block.

[El Macman]

With the inability of kickers to reach the end zone,...

Maybe not at all levels, but, considering they still K/O from the A-40, many, if not a majority, of 5A teams have kickers fully capable of reaching the goal line (in flight). But, even lower level kickers can threaten the goal line on a couple of bounces, and to not have somebody on each pylon is an invitation to disaster. If they can't get the ball past the 15 even on a roll, then OK, not having both pylons covered might be survivable. But it ain't that way in Texas. I suspect it ain't really that way anywhere (varsity).

[Diablo]

What if a flag was thrown for a BBW at the B-34?  What's the enforcement procedure? 

[Welpe]

What if a flag was thrown for a BBW at the B-34?  What's the enforcement procedure? 

1st and 10 for B at the B-19, no?

[El Macman]

1st and 10 for B at the B-19, no?

Maybe.
But I believe Diablo is throwing out the possibility that the foul occured before the ball was handed by the player that caught the kick to his buddy on the reverse. If so, the BS is the end of the related run, which is the spot of the handing (B-21, it looks like). Applying the 3-and-1 principle, the penalty is enforced from the BS, 1/2 the distance to the goal. B, 1/10, B-10.5. Eh?

Big difference. Makes the point that we gotta know when the foul occured.

Nice one, Devil Boy.

[Welpe]

Yikes, didn't even think about that. The end of the run definitely could be the the B-20 there. Did anybody have a bean bag down on that play?

[Diablo]

I believe Diablo is throwing out the possibility that the foul occured before the ball was handed by the player that caught the kick to his buddy on the reverse. If so, the BS is the end of the related run, which is the spot of the handing (B-21, it looks like). Applying the 3-and-1 principle, the penalty is enforced from the BS, 1/2 the distance to the goal. B, 1/10, B-10.5. Eh?
Big difference. Makes the point that we gotta know when the foul occured.

In addition to knowing when the foul occurred, i.e. status of the ball, we have to watch for a loss of player possession in all running plays.  So, contrary to an earlier post in this thread, someone on the crew needs to monitor the ball carrier, even if it is only with one eye.  And, if there is a change/loss of player possession, report that information to the R and calling official.

Here's a relevant tip for the deep officials on free kick, especially in a 5-man crew.  Both officials (B & R?) should watch both deep receivers immediately after one catches/recovers the kick.  If both the ball carrier and the other would-be receiver run towards each other, it is likely that there may be a change of possession - handoff or pass.   We need to be aware of the legality of the change of possession.  Hence, keep 4 eyes on the ball carrier.  However, if both the ball carrier and his teammate run in the same direction, the "off" official can take his eyes off the ball carrier.

 

Nice one, Devil Boy.

Thanks.  Even a blind hog finds a nut if he ...........................

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Diablo's point about when the ILB occurs relative to the handoff is certainly relevant to NCAA rules, but for any Fed guys viewing this, it's not significant. In Fed ball, a handoff is NOT considered the end of one related run and the start of another. For enforcement purposes, it's considered a single related run. Just one of the 87,347 (and a half) differences between the codes.

[Mike L]

Diablo,
I have to disagree. 4 eyes on a ball exchange between 2 non threatened players leaves 6 eyes on the other 20 players giving what we have in this play, a greater potential for a missed foul. A quick glance or even periphery focus should let us know the "receiving" player on the exchange has cut behind the "hander". There's a really low potential for foul here. I still think on this particular play the near side goal line cover would do better by being less concerned with the ball at this point and more concerned with the blocks.
As for which related run creates the ES, we have to see the foul first and then go to the exchange, no matter who calls it. And if it's as bang bang here as this play, I think we would be best served to go with after the exchange.