Author Topic: Solutions  (Read 19779 times)

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Offline ETXZebra

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Solutions
« on: May 16, 2011, 08:42:01 AM »
All the posts about the TASO and UIL situation have offered lots of opinions, but no solutions.  Can we come up with solutions on how to get along, without all the accusations and name calling.  We, (including myself) have had lots to say, without any substance.  We will have to work with the UIL on some basis in the future.  They are not going away.  What’s your input?

Offline TXMike

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 09:27:00 AM »
Wind the clock back as much as possible.

They rewrite 1204 to require all officials be TASO members & they work out the fee schedule (with some input from TASO) that their membership will abide by. 

We continue providing training, we set up a background check requirment, (either name-based or fingerprint-based), and we provide them a list of "TASO-certified" officials which means the persons have completed the training we require, the registration we require, and whatever background check we require. 

Together we form a playing rules committee for each sport that will develop UIL exceptions.

Offline Coby

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 10:32:36 AM »
Along the same lines as TXMIKE:

1.  The UIL makes a public statement and apologizes for the way they went about trying to register officials.  In this statement they recognize the hard work and value that TASO officials have given to the game of texas high school fsports.  They also recognize TASO as the independent organization of record for any officiating games with regards to UIL playoff games.
2.  They pay for all of our legal cost.
3.  TASO officials then register with the UIL or tx dept of licensing and they may require a fee to only cover background checks (as long as all privacy issues can be worked out).  TASO is also responsible for demonstrating an enforcement of ethics and rules violations to the UIL on a yearly basis.
4.  This one may be the hardest.  The school boards demonstrate an understanding of the supply and demand of officials.  The school board recognizes that officiating is a difficult endeavor and not everyone can do it.  In January of each year the AD's and school boards contact their TASO chapters and state what they are going to pay next year with regards to game fees and mileage.  If officials do not accept that rate TASO is not responsible for covering those games and the school board is responsible for covering them.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 11:22:06 AM »
 ^flag

All valid requests. In addition, the UIL gets totally out of the officiating assignment business for state tournaments and playoff games, leaving that strictly to the competing coaches. This would forstall the UIL from being able to assign their loyalists and lackeys to those games. Regarding the background checks, if the UIL wants them then they reimburse TASO for their total costs incurred in implementing those checks. Not wild about the prospects of the UIL arranging those checks at a low cost, then using it as yet another money-making mechanism in its seemingly endless arsenal of financial devices. In addition, the UIL releases all jurisdiction over any of the sports officiating organizations and chapters that it has heretofore taken under its wings and issues a public policy statement that TASO, from this point forward, will have exclusive control over the recruitment, training, retention, and the assignment of all interscholastic sports officials in the State of Texas.

And to show immediate good faith toward TASO for all of the trouble it has brought upon us, that the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his  :!#  Dancing Monkey be immediately terminated, or at best, reassigned to some other UIL venues other than sports officiating. Whoever the UIL lead in Sports Officiating is, they should have to be approved by at least a 2/3 vote of the TASO State Board. In turn, TASO will work with the UIL in the reestablishment of it's COPE Program, requiring all TASO officials to get COPE Certification on an annual basis, and at absolutely no cost to TASO, and more especially, to them!   z^
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 11:25:16 AM by arbitrator »

Offline TXMike

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 11:54:37 AM »
^flag

In addition, the UIL gets totally out of the officiating assignment business for state tournaments and playoff games, leaving that strictly to the competing coaches. This would forstall the UIL from being able to assign their loyalists and lackeys to those games.

This is clearly workable for sports like ours but not sure it as workable for basketball, volleyball ,etc where they have tournaments.  While you would know the 1st round matchups on a weekend, you would not know who is playing in the regional final or state final until the preliminary games are done.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 12:39:33 PM »
"...UIL gets totally out of the officiating assignment business for state tournaments and playoff games, leaving that strictly to the competing coaches."

Only for football.  This will not work for other sports.

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »
"...UIL gets totally out of the officiating assignment business for state tournaments and playoff games, leaving that strictly to the competing coaches."

Only for football.  This will not work for other sports.

 ^flag

In that event, just let TASO State make the necessary assignments putting some sort of mechanism in place whereby the optimal number of qualified and well-deserving officials are selected for those games, even if they are to treat them like the THSCA All-Star Games treat their selected officials, once selected, you are basically "one-and-done!"   I would much rather have TASO make those assignments than giving that option to the UIL. After all, I can trust the vast majority of my officiating brethren~ can't exactly say the same thing for the Manor Road Crowd!   z^

504coach

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 01:28:28 PM »
1.  Let the UIL run officiating for 1 year and when it is a complete cluster let them beg us to come back and take over the games.

2.  Complete Free For ALL.  Let the coaches/districts be in charge of finding and training officials.

3.  True independent contractor status.  Every crew put their bio's on Ebay and let the schools bid on us officiating their games.

Any of these options after a couple of years the UIL and the Superintendents will actually appreciate us and make our avocation better

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 01:37:37 PM »
 ^flag

And if I may interject:

 4. Immediately thereafter, ask for the firing of Breithaupt, Timmons, and Cousins!    z^

Offline fencewire

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 03:50:23 PM »
without all the accusations and name calling.

Didn't take long for that to go flying out the window...

Pretty much the closest to a "solution" that you are going to get is the joint statement that was posted on another thread that got shot down.  That is about the closest you will get to a somewhat agreeable solution without court or legislative intervention.

Calling for terminations, public apologies, etc are just pie in the sky wishes, that will never come true.   Like me wishing to find a big check in my mailbox from publishers clearinghouse.  Wish in one hand.... you know the rest.

WABill

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 04:05:33 PM »
1.  fire TT
2.  see #1
3.  Bring in Dr. Farney and have him mentor CB
4.  Do away with registration period.  Have TASO and the UIL share rosters of names and chapters
5.  Ensure uil that any and all communications sent to TASO will be distributed

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 04:24:26 PM »
Wish in one hand.... you know the rest.

 ^flag

Yeah! It's certainly right up there with "Burn us once, shame on the UIL; Burn us twice, shame on TASO!" Given the track record, just which of these entities would you entrust the future of your avocation to?      z^
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 07:40:58 PM by arbitrator »

Offline Etref

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 08:24:54 PM »
1.  fire TT
2.  see #1
3.  Bring in Dr. Farney and have him mentor CB
4.  Do away with registration period.  Have TASO and the UIL share rosters of names and chapters
5.  Ensure uil that any and all communications sent to TASO will be distributed


So much for your idea. Farney is still a "consultant" to UIL bringing down about $150K a year in retirement.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 10:25:54 PM »

So much for your idea. Farney is still a "consultant" to UIL bringing down about $150K a year in retirement.

 ^flag

With Dr. Farney pulling down "retirement" wages of $115,790 and Dr. Marshall receiving some $123,250 per the Texas Tribune, it's absolutely no wonder that either one would actually want to buck the trend to sacrifice a payday like that. Let's face it: there's just not that many "retirees" out there that can bale that kind of hay, more especially when the bulk of it is coming out of public/state taxpayer funding!    z^

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 11:01:03 PM »
You asked for it...and it may not be pleasant.

1. Get UIL out of officiating. Period. They represent the schools and they can leave it that way or change that as need be. They can determine the playing rules, where playoff sites are to be and so forth.

2. Now that UIL is out of the officiating picture, TASO may or may not be the only game in town -- and that's the way it should be. Local TASO chapters can and should negotiate with school districts on game fees but with the realization that other organizations can and probably will pop up to provide a competitive alternative. School districts can be their own judge of quality. As it stands now, a football official can join a smaller chapter and be working 6-8 2A or 3A varsity games his first year, while those in bigger chapters with better training may not get that opportunity until their 4th or 5th year. Since that sort of variation currently exists, no good argument can be made against letting the school districts and whatever involved officiating organizations dictate the market on all fronts -- experience, pay, etc.

3. TASO must improve. It must establish better training, and have better oversight on chapters. While I believe chapters should largely self operate, TASO needs to be more proactive in stepping in when there is a problem. Instead of banning a chapter from working playoff assignments, a tactic used in the past, they should get rid of the problem by removing leadership responsible, if necessary/applicable. We could probably spend a week on this.

4. As far as training goes, the state meetings should go the way of the do-do bird. Its unrealistic to expect far West Texas officials to attend a meeting in Houston or the Valley folks to go to Dallas or Tyler (if there's ever been a state meeting of TASO/SOA in Tyler, let me know). Regional clinics and on field/court clinics need to become commonplace all over the state. Most sports are now played year round in one form or another, and those like football that aren't, still have a practice season like spring football. There are plenty of opportunities for these sessions.

5. Another thing that needs to be gone is the good old boy system -- and frankly, I'm probably seen more as one of the old boys myself. This is costing us new members and even experienced ones who don't feel a part of the country club. Its also putting weak officials in games they can't handle. How do we do this? Certainly a difficult question, but a few beginning answers include: written progression plans (i.e. 1st year, subvarsity only; 2nd-3rd year: 6 man or private school varsity (football); etc. -- all with a written evaluation plan that may differ from chapter to chapter); fitness expectations and evaluations; requiring clinic attendance to work varsity; these ideas are only for starters.

6. The TASO board system needs adjustment. Having the Presidents for each sport make up the board, to me, doesn't work. They have their own interests and it may not benefit TASO as a whole. Let's elect board members for TASO and (possibly) require each candidate to have multiple sport experience (not necessarily someone who's CURRENTLY active in 2 or more sports).

Much of the changes here focus on TASO -- because like it or not TASO is almost solely responsible for the mess its in. I've been a TASO/SOA member since 1988; worked 4 different sports at one time or another (playoff assignments in 3). TASO isn't entitled to anything -- we need to work for and earn everything we get. While that doesn't give UIL the right to walk all over us, had we been better organized 3 or 4 years ago, this whole crap would not have happened. No need to re-dig graves, but with most everything else, the first change needs to start at home.

WABill

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 05:41:58 AM »

So much for your idea. Farney is still a "consultant" to UIL bringing down about $150K a year in retirement.

Just because the mentee is too thick skulled, it doesn't invalidate #1 and #2.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 09:32:37 AM »
My thoughts:

1. Get UIL out of officiating. Period. They represent the schools and they can leave it that way or change that as need be. They can determine the playing rules, where playoff sites are to be and so forth.

TD: Agree!  But, since they represent the schools, they are attempting to help the schools dictate what they spend on officiating, and keep those expenses down.

2. Now that UIL is out of the officiating picture, TASO may or may not be the only game in town -- and that's the way it should be. Local TASO chapters can and should negotiate with school districts on game fees but with the realization that other organizations can and probably will pop up to provide a competitive alternative. School districts can be their own judge of quality. As it stands now, a football official can join a smaller chapter and be working 6-8 2A or 3A varsity games his first year, while those in bigger chapters with better training may not get that opportunity until their 4th or 5th year. Since that sort of variation currently exists, no good argument can be made against letting the school districts and whatever involved officiating organizations dictate the market on all fronts -- experience, pay, etc.

TD: I cannot agree that local chapters should be negotiating individually with each and every district they supply officials for.  That's what caused all of this UIL/TASO mess in the first place!  Officiating is not and should not be considered a free market.  Each school district should know and needs to know what they will be spending, and it should be the same across the board.  Gate receipts are only used for football, and this should be very easy to estimate.  What needs to happen is TASO representatives should be very involved in what happens with 1204 through negotiations with AD's and school district leaders through the UIL.

3. TASO must improve. It must establish better training, and have better oversight on chapters. While I believe chapters should largely self operate, TASO needs to be more proactive in stepping in when there is a problem. Instead of banning a chapter from working playoff assignments, a tactic used in the past, they should get rid of the problem by removing leadership responsible, if necessary/applicable. We could probably spend a week on this.

TD:  TASO has improved over the last couple of years.  It had to in order to survive.  Training material is getting better, but I still question why we bring in all these college officials to do an on-field clinic at the state meeting.  What a waste of money.  Yes, I understand someone feels like this needs to be done so those guys that think they will get in front of some of those college guys will get an opportunity to move up.  Not likely guys.  We need experts at 5 man mechanics teaching officials who will be working high school games, period.  College officiating should be completely unrelated to TASO.

4. As far as training goes, the state meetings should go the way of the do-do bird. Its unrealistic to expect far West Texas officials to attend a meeting in Houston or the Valley folks to go to Dallas or Tyler (if there's ever been a state meeting of TASO/SOA in Tyler, let me know). Regional clinics and on field/court clinics need to become commonplace all over the state. Most sports are now played year round in one form or another, and those like football that aren't, still have a practice season like spring football. There are plenty of opportunities for these sessions.

TD:  With voting now on-line, there really is not much of a reason to have a state TASO meeting so I agree.  Regional clinics are the way to go.

5. Another thing that needs to be gone is the good old boy system -- and frankly, I'm probably seen more as one of the old boys myself. This is costing us new members and even experienced ones who don't feel a part of the country club. Its also putting weak officials in games they can't handle. How do we do this? Certainly a difficult question, but a few beginning answers include: written progression plans (i.e. 1st year, subvarsity only; 2nd-3rd year: 6 man or private school varsity (football); etc. -- all with a written evaluation plan that may differ from chapter to chapter); fitness expectations and evaluations; requiring clinic attendance to work varsity; these ideas are only for starters.

TD:  When a chapter has coaches selections, there's not a darned thing you can do about this.  Until that selection process changes, very unlikely, this will not change.

6. The TASO board system needs adjustment. Having the Presidents for each sport make up the board, to me, doesn't work. They have their own interests and it may not benefit TASO as a whole. Let's elect board members for TASO and (possibly) require each candidate to have multiple sport experience (not necessarily someone who's CURRENTLY active in 2 or more sports).

TD:  I like the current TASO board system.  Each sport has so many votes depending on the number of members in that sport.  Seems quite reasonable.

Much of the changes here focus on TASO -- because like it or not TASO is almost solely responsible for the mess its in. I've been a TASO/SOA member since 1988; worked 4 different sports at one time or another (playoff assignments in 3). TASO isn't entitled to anything -- we need to work for and earn everything we get. While that doesn't give UIL the right to walk all over us, had we been better organized 3 or 4 years ago, this whole crap would not have happened. No need to re-dig graves, but with most everything else, the first change needs to start at home.

TD:  Egos are the biggest problem, at the UIL and at TASO (especially in the past).  Just follow the money and you can usually tell motivations.

504coach

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 10:24:57 AM »
My thoughts:



TD: I cannot agree that local chapters should be negotiating individually with each and every district they supply officials for.  That's what caused all of this UIL/TASO mess in the first place!  Officiating is not and should not be considered a free market.  Each school district should know and needs to know what they will be spending, and it should be the same across the board.  Gate receipts are only used for football, and this should be very easy to estimate.  What needs to happen is TASO representatives should be very involved in what happens with 1204 through negotiations with AD's and school district leaders through the UIL.

504:  Why should it not be considered a free market?  I understand what you are saying but there has to be protections for TASO in this.  If a district refuses to be professional and tell the chapters how much they will be paying officials this season until the first check comes in then screw them.  If District A pays $50 and District B pays $65 I am going to work District B.  All I ask is for local TASO to publish the rates and if a school does not pay it correctly then stop supplying officials at every level to that school until it is worked out.  TASO should not be required to supply officials if the district refuses to pay a marketable rate.  Could this in theory be worked out with 1204...maybe.  In reality if I am not getting paid gas mileage to go to Edna then I am not driving to Edna.  And neither is someone from SA or CC.  so there needs to be provisions inside of 1204 for schools like Edna.  What is crazy is Edna realizesWe have been too nice to the districts for the sake of the kids for too long.  They fired first. 

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 11:22:20 AM »
As stated, like it or not TASO is the cause of this whole mess.  I think everyone can agree that it was not football, but other sports that created this.  When we start looking at ourselves, not just the UIL as a cause for the problems, we can start the changes and work towards a solution.  If we break this down we can hopefully come up with a viable and workable option to give to our peers for consideration.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 01:24:36 PM »


504:  Why should it not be considered a free market?  I understand what you are saying but there has to be protections for TASO in this.  If a district refuses to be professional and tell the chapters how much they will be paying officials this season until the first check comes in then screw them.  If District A pays $50 and District B pays $65 I am going to work District B.  All I ask is for local TASO to publish the rates and if a school does not pay it correctly then stop supplying officials at every level to that school until it is worked out.  TASO should not be required to supply officials if the district refuses to pay a marketable rate.  Could this in theory be worked out with 1204...maybe.  In reality if I am not getting paid gas mileage to go to Edna then I am not driving to Edna.  And neither is someone from SA or CC.  so there needs to be provisions inside of 1204 for schools like Edna.  What is crazy is Edna realizesWe have been too nice to the districts for the sake of the kids for too long.  They fired first. 


First, this is not about mileage.  That's a whole different discussion, and a real problem when you look at the inconsistencies across the state.

Focusing on game fees, all sub-varsity should be the same across the state, and to hell with how much time is on the clock per game.  Keep it simple.  A middle school game pays X.  All high school sub varsity pays Y.  This makes it very simple and all officials and schools know going into it what the pay expectations are.  A few years ago when the pay rate was $40 per game regardless of level, I heard more positive comments from the schools because they knew exactly what to pay.  The garbage about paying by how much time is on the clock is just too complicated for the book keepers.  They have no idea how much time was on the clock for each game.

For varsity, the gate receipt method for football works.  Keep it.  If the accounting heads at the ISD's are not smart enough to ball park what they will be paying officials off of gate receipts, they need to find another person to run the department.  It's very simple.

Allowing a true free market would mean no more TASO, no more chapters and just an all-out free-for-all, each crew for themselves.  You would have crew soliciting ISD's saying they would work for next to nothing just to get their games.  It would be a disaster.

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 12:19:35 PM »
I sure expected more solution options than this. We need more suggestions.  Let's hear it. 

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 12:39:09 PM »
I sure expected more solution options than this. We need more suggestions.  Let's hear it. 

 I think we need to hold off on "solutions" until June 1st so we can see if the legislature finds the "solution."

  HB 1298 is going to conference committee and depending on what happens, the need to "deal" with the UIL might be moot.  The UIL may be legally barred from dealing with officials in any way -- and may be barred from setting pay.

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2011, 01:00:43 PM »
Did you mean HB 1286?

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Solutions
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2011, 01:30:11 PM »
Did you mean HB 1286?

  Yes, sorry.