Author Topic: Chop Block....or Not (video) (Read 14748 times)

TXMike · « **on:** August 27, 2011, 09:25:23 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnw2c19gRd4

El Macman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2011, 10:22:10 PM »

Left guard and tackle. Left guard engages high, then slides down to thigh/knee area, as left tackle engages high.
The question here is whether the low block has to meet to the same criterion as a Block Below the Waist, i.e., if the low block starts above the waist but the blocker slides down, is that treated the same as a Block Below the Waist? If it is, then officially, you have two legal blocks. If it isn't, then you've got a chop block. When in question, it is a chop block. Being a safety foul, probably better to call it than pass.

fencewire · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2011, 10:27:06 PM »

Tx, can you get the block below the waist on the punt return, I think in the first q..

TXMike · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2011, 07:05:33 AM »

Is this the one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnql26ER0i0

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2011, 09:16:52 AM »

Didn't see the low block, but if the BIB was the great hit on the side, that was a travesty.

GameWillTravel · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2011, 09:48:25 AM »

Looks like a chop to me on the left Team A guard and tackle but did see any BIB. Are you talking about the little push in the back. Wouldnt call that in flag football

El Macman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2011, 10:27:42 AM »

What was called?

The R gives a quick BIB prelim signal, but then either adds a BBW or changes it to a BBW. What did they go with?
The B appears to see the result of the suspect BIB on the flyer (which is clearly a great side block) grabs for his flag, but hesitates. As the BC continues toward the sideline, B10 makes a weak block on an opponent at the shoulder, stumbles, and slides down the opponent, cutting the opponent, causing the opponent to fall to the ground. If not seen in its entirety, this block may appear to a BBW foul (it is not). About this moment, the B's flag flies in and hits the BC, which could be for either suspect foul.
Not sure why the B was so intent on getting to the sideline. After the catch, if the B would have taken a few steps toward and turning his back to B's goal line, his field of view would have opened up enough to see both blocks better. If the H is looking at the flyer on his side (which he should), then he would have seen the side block, and, if the B's flag was for the suspect BIB, the H could have called the B off of it. The U should have a good look at the suspect BBW, and, if the B's flag was for that suspect BBW, he could have called the B off of that.

fencewire · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2011, 10:37:34 AM »

Quote from: TXMike on August 28, 2011, 07:05:33 AM

Is this the one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnql26ER0i0

That's the one, thanks....

And I agree with macman....

blindref757 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:53:38 AM »

OP...I think we could justify a chop based on what I see. In real time, that would have looked bad. Can't see getting much of an argument on it really...but since Mike posted it, he might not agree. What is missing?

TXMike · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2011, 03:19:54 PM »

If this is what "they" want called as a chop then I suggest "they" rewrite the rule. We have been taught for at least 20+ years that if a block starts high and goes low it is NOT a block below the waist by definition. If a wide receiver "cracks back" high and then slides low will you flag it if the force of the block is away from his adjacent sideline? If during a punt return, a blocker is blocking high and then slides low, will you flag as an illegal block below the waist?

mccormicw · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2011, 03:55:48 PM »

If two blockers are engaged high (above the waist) and one of them slides below the waist, I do not believe that meets the intent of a chop block (IMO). However, if one is engaged high and slides low and THEN another blocker engages high, we have a chop block that meets the intent of the rule (IMO).

Here are two other chop block type situations:

A player starts a block high and slides low (technically a block above the waist), and another player comes along and engages low. Isnt that a chop block if the first block is "technically" above the waist even though two low blocks is not a chop?

Team "mccormicw" decides that offensive guards will make initial contact against opponents just above the waist and then slide low so the tackle can then finish off the "legal" chop block high.

Just sayin/askin....

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2011, 06:21:44 PM »

I've looked at this video 10 times and read the comments about guard and tackle chopping and I can't find what you're talking about. What is the time stamp for the alleged chop block?

Best regards,

Brad

TXMike · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2011, 08:56:14 PM »

:06 and :041 at the 41 yard line

110 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:06:40 AM »

I got nuttin'.

In fact, my immediate, live-speed reaction was "please, don't let someone call that a block from behind."

The only thing that even gave a twinge to the flag-hand was the post-whistle celebration, but even then - that's football. "Take 'er off the field, three."

blindref757 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:08:22 AM »

It appears to me that the guard actually disengages and comes back for seconds at the defenders knees as the tackle is engaging him high. Wouldn't this be a new block? Looking at it again, it still appears to me to violate both the letter and the intent of the rule. This action put the defender at risk for a number of lower extremity injuries. If we err on the side of caution and flag this play, I'm not sure we get downgraded. If that kid is writhing in pain after the play ends and we don't have a flag down, I think we look bad.

ret66482 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:42:25 AM »

I agree with blindref - looks like the guard disengage and slides down. It is better to penalize for safety reasons. If it happens once and the player gets away with it he will revert to it again later.

"THE ACQUISITION OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE APPLICATION OF KNOWLEDGE CAN MAKE YOU A DANGEROUS PERSON"

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2011, 12:36:22 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on September 06, 2011, 08:56:14 PM

:06 and :041 at the 41 yard line

Mike, either my machine is bringing up the wrong video, or you're messin' with me. There is nothing going on at :06 and at :41 the referee is making an announcement. I'm confused.

OK, I get it now. Didn't notice there were two videos of two different plays in the same thread. Doesn't this violate some unwritten refstripes law

TXMike · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:34:41 PM »

Yes, we should have disclaimers for the umpires like you who have a difficult time processing multiple issues simultaneously

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2011, 02:15:04 PM »

Quote from: TXMike on September 07, 2011, 01:34:41 PM

Yes, we should have disclaimers for the umpires like you who have a difficult time processing multiple issues simultaneously

You better stop.....I'm very sensitive.

Grant - AR · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:52:20 PM »

Quote from: SATCFI on September 07, 2011, 12:36:22 PM

OK, I get it now. Didn't notice there were two videos of two different plays in the same thread. Doesn't this violate some unwritten refstripes law

Sorry, should we start an umpire section with only short sentences and small words?

You know I'm only kidding.

110 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:46:42 PM »

Quote from: Grant - AR on September 07, 2011, 04:52:20 PM

Sorry, should we start an umpire section with only short sentences and small words?

Whut?

Grant - AR · « **Reply #21 on:** September 07, 2011, 09:02:13 PM »

Quote from: Livin' in the pit on September 07, 2011, 07:46:42 PM

Whut?

Make sure you read all the way to the bottom.

Welpe · « **Reply #22 on:** September 07, 2011, 09:40:49 PM »

Quote from: Grant - AR on September 07, 2011, 09:02:13 PM

Make sure you read all the way to the bottom.

Can you try typing it slower, you know, so even the B's can read it?

Author Topic: Chop Block....or Not (video) (Read 14748 times)

El Macman

GameWillTravel

El Macman

110

ret66482

Grant - AR

110

Grant - AR