Author Topic: onside kick (Read 13391 times)

copedaddy · « **on:** September 04, 2011, 10:35:56 AM »

Any thoughts on the onside kick in the Auburn game? Only got to see it once, but looked like the ball never hit the ground so could there have been kick catch interfernce?

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2011, 10:42:47 AM »

It was kicked into the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q1Sm7SBVAo

Diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2011, 10:56:07 AM »

Check out the block by A13 on B3 at 0:37 & 0:44.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2011, 01:10:04 PM »

Quote from: Diablo on September 04, 2011, 10:56:07 AM

Check out the block by A13 on B3 at 0:37 & 0:44.

Yep, missed that one.

bama_stripes · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2011, 01:24:08 PM »

Quote from: Diablo on September 04, 2011, 10:56:07 AM

Check out the block by A13 on B3 at 0:37 & 0:44.

Looks to me like A13 tripped & rolled in front of B3.

copedaddy · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2011, 04:26:17 PM »

After looking at it several times, I still think the ball never touched the ground, just by the flight of the tee it seems the ball was air born from the start. I got KCI, at full speed it is very hard to tell.

Hawkeye · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2011, 09:43:21 PM »

Quote from: Diablo on September 04, 2011, 10:56:07 AM

Check out the block by A13 on B3 at 0:37 & 0:44.

Look at where the ball is when these blocks occur (best view is at 0:04). Looks to me that the ball is clearly at or beyond the A-40 when the blocks occur.

JasonTX · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2011, 10:35:28 PM »

I agree that the ball was beyond 10 yards when the blocking took place. I can't tell if the ball hit the ground. I would have a foul for interference if the ball did not hit the ground.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2011, 11:09:58 PM »

Quote from: JasonTX on September 04, 2011, 10:35:28 PM

I agree that the ball was beyond 10 yards when the blocking took place. I can't tell if the ball hit the ground. I would have a foul for interference if the ball did not hit the ground.

It was a low block, doesn't matter if it went 10 yards. BBW is illegal on all kicks. Some may question if it was a BBW, but I think it looked like it was.

Best regards,

Brad

JasonTX · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2011, 11:19:36 PM »

Quote from: SATCFI on September 04, 2011, 11:09:58 PM

It was a low block, doesn't matter if it went 10 yards. BBW is illegal on all kicks. Some may question if it was a BBW, but I think it looked like it was.

Best regards,

Brad

At the :37 sec it almost looks like he gets tripped up. Hard to tell when you look at the :44 mark. If low and not tripped, I would have a flag as well.

Diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2011, 05:59:57 AM »

Quote from: Hawkeye on September 04, 2011, 09:43:21 PM

Look at where the ball is when these blocks occur (best view is at 0:04). Looks to me that the ball is clearly at or beyond the A-40 when the blocks occur.

I drew attention to the block because it was BBW, not whether it occurred before/after the kick went 10 yds.

If you think it was a foul, which I do, then when did the block occur - before/after the A80 caught the ball? It makes a BIG difference.

TxSkyBolt · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2011, 02:33:04 PM »

Quote from: copedaddy on September 04, 2011, 04:26:17 PM

After looking at it several times, I still think the ball never touched the ground, just by the flight of the tee it seems the ball was air born from the start. I got KCI, at full speed it is very hard to tell.

Try this....select 720P and full screen and you can see clearly that the ball was kicked into the ground....no question about it.

best regards,

Brad

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2011, 06:24:07 AM »

Quote from: copedaddy on September 04, 2011, 04:26:17 PM

After looking at it several times, I still think the ball never touched the ground, just by the flight of the tee it seems the ball was air born from the start. I got KCI, at full speed it is very hard to tell.

It absolutely hit the ground, it was kicked straight down into it. I know the kid from camps, and I coach the exact same technique. There is NO WAY his leg motion and upper body angle could be the way it was and pop the ball up.

The kick itself was excellent. I will let the rest of you debate the blocks, as some of them may be questionable. But there is NO doubt about the kick. It was very well done.

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2011, 08:41:17 AM »

The "low block" does raise an interesting point for discussion. The team A player who throws the low block and who seemed to be falling down after contact with another player, had actually contacted a teammate when he appeared to "lose his balance".

Does colliding with a teammate earlier and then appearing to execute what amounts to an apparently intentional low block absolve a player from a flag?

faultline · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2011, 02:47:06 PM »

You are right. I have seen no evidence that kick hit ground. Why has not ESPN shown the kick in Hi Def and slow mo. I can't believe a kick could be executed like that. I have never seen a ground onside kick like that one. I can't believe this is getting no press. I need to be convinced that this ball was kicked on the ground. Blame Utah State staff for no challenging play.

mccormicw · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2011, 04:03:21 PM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on September 06, 2011, 08:41:17 AM

The "low block" does raise an interesting point for discussion. The team A player who throws the low block and who seemed to be falling down after contact with another player, had actually contacted a teammate when he appeared to "lose his balance".

Does colliding with a teammate earlier and then appearing to execute what amounts to an apparently intentional low block absolve a player from a flag?

Take it another step, if the player trips over his own feet and then "accidently" blocks low. Do we have a foul then?

El Macman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2011, 04:04:34 PM »

Quote from: faultline on September 06, 2011, 02:47:06 PM

I can't believe a kick could be executed like that. I have never seen a ground onside kick like that one. I can't believe this is getting no press.

Where have you been? Kickers have been doing this for at least 8 years - probably longer. The first time I saw one (in pre-game warm-up), I had the kicker do it again, because I couldn't believe what I had just seen. Then he did it repeatedly.
Every kicker on every FBS college team now has that technique in their bag of tricks. This one was particularly well executed. Utah State isn't contesting, because they know it was kicked into the ground.

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2011, 04:46:14 PM »

Quote from: faultline on September 06, 2011, 02:47:06 PM

You are right.

Who is right?

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I have seen no evidence that kick hit ground.

Then you aren't watching well. The ball WAS kicked directly into the ground. It was practicing this type of kick that caused Brandon Coutou (UGA) to tear his quad a few years ago.

Quote

Why has not ESPN shown the kick in Hi Def and slow mo. I can't believe a kick could be executed like that. I have never seen a ground onside kick like that one. I can't believe this is getting no press.

No press? ESPN, Fox Sports and others have shown it many times. It's on my TiVo right now, not from the game, but from SportsCenter.

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I need to be convinced that this ball was kicked on the ground.

The video is visual proof. Not sure what else you need.

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Blame Utah State staff for no challenging play.

No, if you want to blame the Utah State coaches for anything, blame them for not teaching their kids how to shift on an onside kick. Auburn had six players outside the hash, Utah St had 4. That's lack of awareness!

El Macman says that every FBS kicker can do this. I might contest that statement, as it is NOT a easy kick to make. I would agree that many FBS kickers can do it, but I can guarantee you that all can't, I've worked too many camps with college kickers to know they can't all do it.

This one was very well done, and I sent the youtube link to all of my current kickers as instructional video.

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:58:34 AM »

Quote from: Diablo on September 05, 2011, 05:59:57 AM

I drew attention to the block because it was BBW, not whether it occurred before/after the kick went 10 yds.

If you think it was a foul, which I do, then when did the block occur - before/after the A80 caught the ball? It makes a BIG difference.

But we clearly had a low block, which occurred after the A blocker was going down after colliding with a teammate. Does the A blocker get a "free one" because the block occurred after he contacted a teammate and lost his balance while still managing to get his block in?

If no, and we should have had a BBW flag, Diablo's question is on point in that the block was very close in time to possession by team A. What should we have here?

fortier03 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2011, 08:53:15 PM »

Am i missing something here, we have a kick in possesion of the kicking team, shouldnt that play have been shutdown as soon as K comes to the ground in possession of the kick? Also, just my opinion but, it appeared to me that the blocking below the waist occored while the ball was free and before possesion, wouldn't that mean that the K needs to r kick from the 15?

Atlanta Blue · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2011, 10:30:31 AM »

Quote from: fortier03 on September 07, 2011, 08:53:15 PM

Am i missing something here, we have a kick in possesion of the kicking team, shouldnt that play have been shutdown as soon as K comes to the ground in possession of the kick?

According to the SJ working the game, it was, however the crowd noise wa so loud, the players did not hear it.

Quote

Also, just my opinion but, it appeared to me that the blocking below the waist occored while the ball was free and before possesion, wouldn't that mean that the K needs to r kick from the 15?

IF that's when it occured, then yes. But IS that when it occured? That's a close call.

Diablo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2011, 10:49:32 AM »

Quote from: fortier03 on September 07, 2011, 08:53:15 PM

Also, just my opinion but, it appeared to me that the blocking below the waist occored while the ball was free and before possesion, wouldn't that mean that the K needs to r kick from the 15?

When a 7-man crew is covering an obvious onside kick, as in this situation, who is responsible for detecting the alleged BBW and the status of the ball when the block occurred?

fortier03 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:03:57 PM »

My guess is that has to be the official on the opposite side of R's restraining line.

SJ_2010 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 08, 2011, 09:24:21 PM »

Quote from: faultline on September 06, 2011, 02:47:06 PM

I can't believe this is getting no press. I need to be convinced that this ball was kicked on the ground. Blame Utah State staff for no challenging play.

A kick hitting the ground off the tee is not reviewable. See 2011 IR Casebook 12-3-6 Play #92