Onside kicks galore!

[TexDoc]

Fed rules are apparently a lot different than NCAA around free kicks.  I see a lot of problems with these kicks using NCAA rules

http://www.nesn.com/2011/09/high-school-football-team-in-arkansas-goes-up-29-0-before-letting-opponent-run-a-play-from-scrimmage.html

[mbyron]

What problems did you see? One I noticed was a violation of 6-1-2, when they picked the ball up off the tee, passed it backward to another player, and drop kicked it.

[Kalle]

At least two of them were in clear violation of 6-1-2-c (four players on both sides of the kicker), and I think several of them were kicked straight into the air thus having KCI issues.

[mbyron]

At least two of them were in clear violation of 6-1-2-c (four players on both sides of the kicker)...

NFHS has no such requirement. Did you understand the point of the OP?

[InsideTheStripes]

What problems did you see? One I noticed was a violation of 6-1-2, when they picked the ball up off the tee, passed it backward to another player, and drop kicked it.

You sure that's a violation.  It looked to me like the drop kick occurred from the "designated" spot.  It looked like he drop kicked the ball right off the tee.  The rule doesn't mandate the ball stay in the designated spot - only that it be kicked from there.  Like I said on another board... I think the play was designed to comply with the text of the rule, but not the spirit. 

When teams decide to go that route in games I'm working, they best continue to run each play with such precision. 

 

[TexDoc]

NCAA
I see problems with KCI (6-4-1)
Not enough on both sides of the kicker (6-1-3-c)
Ball not kicked from the restraining line (when drop kicked) (6-1-2)
Kicking team blocking a player before the ball goes 10 yards (6-1-2-g)
Does not meet definition of a legal free kick when drop kicked (2-16-4-b)

[Kalle]

NFHS has no such requirement. Did you understand the point of the OP?

I thought he was thinking about the NCAA rules so I answered based on NCAA. I have zero knowledge of the NFHS rule differences.

[TexDoc]

I have zero knowledge of the NFHS rule differences.

That makes two of us Kalle.

[mbyron]

You sure that's a violation.  It looked to me like the drop kick occurred from the "designated" spot.  It looked like he drop kicked the ball right off the tee.  The rule doesn't mandate the ball stay in the designated spot - only that it be kicked from there.  Like I said on another board... I think the play was designed to comply with the text of the rule, but not the spirit. 

When teams decide to go that route in games I'm working, they best continue to run each play with such precision. 

 

I see what you mean. In that case I'm probably flagging K for encroachment: they violated 6-1-3 because a player other than the kicker or holder crossed the neutral zone (the player who picked up the ball did not kick it, but passed it to another player who drop-kicked it).

And I like your approach: their WR's on the line better be precisely on the line, etc.

[TxSkyBolt]

I see what you mean. In that case I'm probably flagging K for encroachment: they violated 6-1-3 because a player other than the kicker or holder crossed the neutral zone (the player who picked up the ball did not kick it, but passed it to another player who drop-kicked it).

And I like your approach: their WR's on the line better be precisely on the line, etc.

Except he didn't cross the kickers restraining line....

[mbyron]

Except he didn't cross the kickers restraining line....

Sure he did. He picked up the ball.

[TxSkyBolt]

It's not a foul until the ball is kicked.

When the ball is kicked (A.R. 6-1-2-I-IV):
a. Each Team A player, except the holder and kicker of a place kick, must be
behind the ball (A.R. 6-1-2-V) [S18].

[mbyron]

Are you quoting an NCAA AR for an NFHS game?

And: you can't be completely behind the ball and pick it up. 

[InsideTheStripes]

I see what you mean. In that case I'm probably flagging K for encroachment: they violated 6-1-3 because a player other than the kicker or holder crossed the neutral zone (the player who picked up the ball did not kick it, but passed it to another player who drop-kicked it).

And I like your approach: their WR's on the line better be precisely on the line, etc.

I'm not sold on the fact he entered the neutral zone. 

If the field is properly marked, both field markings (40 & 50 yard-lines) can't be in the neutral zone or the neutral zone would be wider than 10 yards.  We don't allow R to stand on the 50 yard line, so it would stand to reason that the marking for the 50 yard line is actually in the neutral zone.  If that's the case, K can't be in the neutral zone until they completely cross the 40 yard-line.  A1 would not need to completely cross the line in order to pick up a ball placed on the line and I don't think he did.

I don't like it, but I don't have a flag on the ground for this play.

[TampaSteve]

A11 making a comeback?   

[TxSkyBolt]

The OP was opining on the illegality of some of the plays if this game were played under NCAA rules.  I was quoting that code.  Sorry to be confusing.

Best regards,

Brad