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Author Topic: Snapper and the Swinging Gate  (Read 13844 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« on: September 30, 2011, 05:43:24 AM »
To be legally on the line and be a lineman he must be on the line, facing his opponent’s goal line, with his shoulders approximately  parallel to the line of scrimmage.  What defines "approximately"?
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mbyron

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 05:50:18 AM »
Nothing defines it. One interpretation I've heard is less than 45° from parallel is approximately parallel.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 06:08:49 AM »
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mbyron

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 06:11:58 AM »
Quote from: TXMike on September 30, 2011, 06:08:49 AM
You make the call..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EPbBeeQVkU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpGYeMxtwiI
I would rule that the snapper's shoulders were not approximately parallel to the LOS. 90° off is approximately perpendicular to the line.
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El Macman

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 06:47:41 AM »
Quote from: TXMike on September 30, 2011, 05:43:24 AM
To be legally on the line and be a lineman he must be on the line, facing his opponent’s goal line, with his shoulders approximately  parallel to the line of scrimmage.  What defines "approximately"?

When the 'approximately' parallel rule was first put in for split ends (to be able to turn to hear signals), Mr. Adams interpreted this as up to 30 degrees. That was in writing, somewhere, but it would take me while to find it, if I could find it at all.
Until now, that only applied to eligible linemen. Now, it applies to all linemen.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 07:02:23 AM »
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 07:50:29 AM »
This isn't even close to approximately parallel.  It's 90 degrees!

And on the first one (when it's alread 35-6), I hear a whistle after the snap.  Did they kill the play? 
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 07:54:01 AM »
Dayum!!! Your ears are better than mine!  I don't hear any whistle (but not it was not killed, nor flagged)
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 08:02:23 AM »
Definitely illegal if we are using the 30 degree guideline that seems to be the accepted number.
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Offline Welpe

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 09:02:44 AM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on September 30, 2011, 07:50:29 AM
This isn't even close to approximately parallel.  It's 90 degrees!

And on the first one (when it's alread 35-6), I hear a whistle after the snap.  Did they kill the play?

I heard something like a whistle, too.
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Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2011, 07:29:27 PM »
Isn't the intent of this rule to allow the defense to distinquish an eligible receiver and one who isn't (i.e. backfield or not)? If the C is on the end of the line and eligible by number, I don't see where an advantage is gained by him being at 90 degrees.
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2011, 09:04:28 PM »
This is not an advantage/disadvantage call.  The rule 2 wording requires the snapper's shoulders  to be "approximately parallell" to the line of scimmage.

Rule 2-27:

ARTICLE 4. a. Lineman.
1. A lineman is any Team A player legally on his scrimmage line (Rule 2-21-2).
2. A Team A player is on his scrimmage line when he faces his opponent’s goal line with the line of his shoulders approximately parallel thereto and either (a) he is the snapper (Rule 2-27-8) or (b) his head breaks the plane of the line drawn through the waistline of the snapper.

Snapper
ARTICLE 8. The snapper is the player who snaps the ball. He is established as the snapper when he takes a position behind the ball and touches or simulates (hand(s) at or below his knees) touching the ball (Rule 7-1-3).
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Offline Welpe

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2011, 11:26:21 PM »
Quote from: Joe Stack on October 08, 2011, 07:29:27 PM
Isn't the intent of this rule to allow the defense to distinquish an eligible receiver and one who isn't (i.e. backfield or not)? If the C is on the end of the line and eligible by number, I don't see where an advantage is gained by him being at 90 degrees.

I'd say the snapper gains an advantage by starting with his shoulders in that position.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2011, 02:33:05 AM »
Quote from: Joe Stack on October 08, 2011, 07:29:27 PM
Isn't the intent of this rule to allow the defense to distinquish an eligible receiver and one who isn't (i.e. backfield or not)? If the C is on the end of the line and eligible by number, I don't see where an advantage is gained by him being at 90 degrees.

Even if he was not the snapper, if he was just a regular, eligible numbered end, it would be illegal for him to line up like this
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todd.gundlach@norwoodligh

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 01:06:54 PM »
was this before or after the JMU/UMaine game where the snapper did something similar on a 2pt conversion to win in 2OT?
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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 01:15:11 PM »
[quote IDIOT link=topic=8465.msg81841#msg81841 date=1318961214]
was this before or after the JMU/UMaine game where the snapper did something similar on a 2pt conversion to win in 2OT?
[/quote]

Check here:  http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8522.0
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Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 09:24:27 AM »
Isn't the snapper a restricted lineman and therefore is an ineligible receiver ?
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 10:42:24 AM »
Quote from: Aussie-Zebra on October 23, 2011, 09:24:27 AM
Isn't the snapper a restricted lineman and therefore is an ineligible receiver ?

Please quote the rule saying that the snapper would be an ineligible receiver.
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Offline Aussie-Zebra

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Re: Snapper and the Swinging Gate
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 10:55:42 AM »
Its OK Kalle - I found this elsewhere
Quote
if he is numbered 1-49 or 80-99 and he's on the end of the line and you have 5 other guys on the line numbered 50-79, which is exactly what you described, then he is eligible.

I had just never seen a play where the snapper caught a pass before.

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