Author Topic: Uns Conduct (video)  (Read 9834 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Uns Conduct (video)
« on: October 07, 2011, 05:06:43 AM »
Even though the 1st half ends, the game is not ended and the officials still have jurisdiction over acts like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okD3bMaua7A

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 08:07:33 AM »
I would give this one a stern talking to with a clear message to keep the helmet on when on the field of play.  If it was an act directed at the opponents, then he'd get my flag.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline TXMike

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 08:16:49 AM »
If he slams his helmet to the ground ON THE FIELD OF PLAY because he is mad at himself it is a talk to but if he does it because he is mad at an opponent it is a flag?

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 08:30:17 AM »
I pretty sure that we all agree we have jurisdiction here, but I'm simply not going to flag this in a three point game, after the half has ended, when it has nothing to do with anyone but the kicker himself.  In my book, it's a "talk-to".  If in your book, it's a flag, then you're supported by the rules.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline TXMike

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 08:39:25 AM »
So are you changing your "it's not against the opponent" stance?  Even if he was irked at an opponent who he thought had tackled him too hard and he threw his helmet down like this you would not flag? (unless of course there was a 30 point difference in which case you would flag?)

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 09:09:37 AM »
I offered my opinion on a single play as posted - no more, no less.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline TXMike

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 09:18:16 AM »
Actually you commented on other similar plays by making reference to the point differential and who the act "was directed against".    Those comments inferred there were plays where you would flag this and also made apretty good inference as to what they might be.

I suspect you would not flag this either?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsENxNnVz4
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 09:21:10 AM by TXMike »

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 09:52:32 AM »
Wouldn't expect a flag on either one.

In the first, it was not an action showing disrespect to an opponent or an official, and didn't rise to the point of being incendiary.  Tell him to knock it off.

In the second one, kid just hit a 48 yard FG to win the game, and did a cartwheel OUTSIDE the numbers right in front of his own teams bench.  It's an emotional game, and it was spontaneous emotion away from the other team.  Flagging this is REALLY overofficiating.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 09:58:14 AM »
It would appear his coach did not agree with you

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 10:21:12 AM »
We have no idea what his coach was saying.  He may have been telling him what a great kick he just made and what to do on the kickoff.  He may have been chastising him, we have no idea.  As a coach, I will occasionally grab a player by the face mask when he is overly excited to make sure he is facing and looking at me and listening to what I am telling him, which is often positive, sometimes negative.

But even as a coach, I will often let a player know he did something wrong whether it deserved a flag or not.  In the first example, where the player dropped (not slammed) his helmet in disgust, I would certainly have a discussion with him letting him know that is not acceptable behavior.  But "not acceptable to me" and "deserves a 15 yard penalty" are not necessarily the same thing.  In the second case, I may need to settle him down because there is still a kickoff to be made.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 11:15:32 AM by Atlanta Blue »

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 10:38:37 AM »
Wouldn't expect a flag on either one.

In the first, it was not an action showing disrespect to an opponent or an official, and didn't rise to the point of being incendiary.  Tell him to knock it off.

In the second one, kid just hit a 48 yard FG to win the game, and did a cartwheel OUTSIDE the numbers right in front of his own teams bench.  It's an emotional game, and it was spontaneous emotion away from the other team.  Flagging this is REALLY overofficiating.

I would agree with A-B.  These are "talk-and-teach time" as a long time R, now retired used to call them.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 12:02:19 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Welpe

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 10:41:51 AM »
If he slams his helmet to the ground ON THE FIELD OF PLAY because he is mad at himself it is a talk to but if he does it because he is mad at an opponent it is a flag?

But our crew might not get picked next year if we flag this...or this may be the last TV game we ever see...

mbyron

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 10:48:32 AM »
  But "not acceptable to me" and "deserves a 15 yard penalty" are necessarily the same thing.
This principle also applies with officials: some behavior needs to be addressed but not flagged.

chymechowder

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 09:04:23 PM »
"between periods" is one of the times when it's OK for a player to remove his helmet outside the team area.

so this shouldnt be a foul...unless maybe you have the "slamming" as flagworthy. (I'd put it at 10% slam and 90% disgusted drop, btw).

i've got nothing on this, other than maybe a reminder that if he does the same thing midway thru the third quarter, it's a foul.

Offline blindref757

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Re: Uns Conduct (video)
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2011, 10:33:12 PM »
There are 22 kids and only 5 refs.  We can sometimes "not see" things...if you know what I mean!?!?  I've learned that you can always pull out a booger if you dig hard enough...but why force it?