Communications Dring Contest

[Curious]

Was asked a questions for which I have been unable to find specific rules coverage.  I understand the limitations regarding mobile and LAN phones; and that 1-1-6 gives the referee the ability to rule on things not covered in the rules; but can anyone quote specifics in this case?

Situation:

During a game played last week, it was reported that "someone" filming the game from an end-zone "Sky-cam" (which is more and more prevalent these days) was ALSO in communication with the coaches on the sideline.  Not sure but I have to assume he was on a mobile phone - which makes any legality issue clear; but:
1. Do the rules specify that coaches - normally located in the Press Box with or without communication devices directly to the field - must reside ONLY in the Press Box?  (I can't even find a reference to the "Press Box" in the rules)
2. Could they be in the stands?
3.Could they be in the stands on the opponent's sideline (or anywhere else for that matter)

My instincts scream "NO!; but would be interested in your opinions.

Thanks

 

[WCFB]

Good question, i had this in a game last week as well. We were unsure if the guy in the scissor lift was recording the game or relaying information to the coaches. We could not see a camera with him but it seems suspicious for one guy to be "watching" the game from the endzone like that. When he came off the lift after the first half i did not see a camera on the lift or any headphones on him but he sure looked like he was part of the team.

[AlUpstateNY]

That seems beyond our responsibilities and would be something for game management to bring to the attention of their league or conference superiors.

[busman]

Agree with Al.  Game administration, conference, then state office deal with this from opponent complaint.  Nothing for officials to deal with here or even report.  We've got enough to do between the lines.

In our state, the issue seems to be bands playing and electronic speakers.  State rule on bands is very clear, and is also very clear that game officials DO NOT deal with this.  But many coaches want us to, and many officials step way outside their responsibilities to try and handle it, instead of simply following the state guidelines.

[Curious]

Agree with Al.  Game administration, conference, then state office deal with this from opponent complaint.  Nothing for officials to deal with here or even report.  We've got enough to do between the lines.

In our state, the issue seems to be bands playing and electronic speakers.  State rule on bands is very clear, and is also very clear that game officials DO NOT deal with this.  But many coaches want us to, and many officials step way outside their responsibilities to try and handle it, instead of simply following the state guidelines.

So, you guys feel that absent some specific State edict, a team could be subjected to an unfair advantage if "coaching" goes on outside the team box or the Press Box?  Seems that, at a minimum, we could apply 1-6-1,2 when and if it is brought to our attention.  Certainly we don't need to go looking for a problem; but can we bury our collective heads if it is made evident to us?

[Atlanta Blue]

Where does it say you can't coach from outside the press box or the team box?  There is no rule because it's not illegal. 

There are rules against illegal communication devices such as cell phones, but there is no rule that says a coach can't sit in the stands, or on a scissors lift, or on the roof of the school.

[busman]

Exactly.  Now, if they are on the sideline or on the end line ON THE GROUND, they get a warning for not being in the coaching box, then the subsequent penalties. But up in a cherry picker or some other lift - that's for someone with a lot higher pay grade than me to take care of.

Now, that said, a visiting coach comes to you right before the secondhalf starts and says "They (home team) are watching the video of the first half in the locker room."  What do you do then?

[Curious]

Where does it say you can't coach from outside the press box or the team box?  There is no rule because it's not illegal. 

There are rules against illegal communication devices such as cell phones, but there is no rule that says a coach can't sit in the stands, or on a scissors lift, or on the roof of the school.

I was counting on you weighing in AB...

As I said in my OP, the rules seem to be mute on the whole subject of the physical location of coaches (ther than field coaches).  They (the rules) do speak to the issue how information from "wherever" is communicated (and may provide an unfair advantage "prior to the conclusion of the game): 1-6-2 Note.

My issue is that we do require all "field coaches" to be in the team box.  We don't allow a "coach" to wander down to the 5 yard line and then return to the box to provide situational information; so why should someone in the same capacity to be on the field (in the air or not) behind the end zone?  In the stands...okay; but on the field seems counter-intuitive.

Busman, "on the ground v in the air...."?  Come on.  As far as getting info from the other coach about his opponent using video during half-time, unless I see it for myself, there's not much I can do; so he better find me DURING half time.

I DID find a reference to a "scouting booth" in CB play 1.6.2A
 

[HLinNC]

Inside the fence = us
Outside the fence = not us

[VALJ]

Exactly.  Now, if they are on the sideline or on the end line ON THE GROUND, they get a warning for not being in the coaching box, then the subsequent penalties. But up in a cherry picker or some other lift - that's for someone with a lot higher pay grade than me to take care of.

Now, that said, a visiting coach comes to you right before the secondhalf starts and says "They (home team) are watching the video of the first half in the locker room."  What do you do then?

Not much I can do to prove one wat or the other about that - if I ask the coach and he says "no", what do I do then?  I'd tell the coach he'd be best served to bring that up with the conference and/or state.

[TampaSteve]

Where does it say you can't coach from outside the press box or the team box?  There is no rule because it's not illegal. 

There are rules against illegal communication devices such as cell phones, but there is no rule that says a coach can't sit in the stands, or on a scissors lift, or on the roof of the school.

True. However, it would seem only fair that if A is on a skylift coaching in the EZ then B should be offered that same perk.
If I'm not mistaken, my State addressed this a few years back.  I seem to think they said one can film from there, but not coach.

[JimD]

Coaches can coach from where ever they want - the sidelines, the press box, the school window, forklifts, trees and from the stands.  If they are on the sideline, they have to stay in the coaches box, other that that there are no restrictions.  Both teams do not have the same access to these locations. If the home team has a forklift, the visititors would have to bring their own.

The officials have no control (or interest in this).  We worry about what's on the field.

[Atlanta Blue]

True. However, it would seem only fair that if A is on a skylift coaching in the EZ then B should be offered that same perk.

They are welcome to bring their own Skylift and coach from there as well, sure.  But it's not up to the home team to provide it for them.

I have state of the art headphones for press box to sideline communication.  My visiting opponent doesn't.  Do I have to get him a set?

I have 12 assistant coaches, many with college and professional experience.  My opponet only has 3 assistants.  Do I have to loan him some of mine?

My players have Riddell Revo helmets that have far better concussion protection than the old Bike helmets being worn by my opponent.  Do I have to make sure his helmets are as good as mine?

There are plenty of legal differences between schools.  Having a Skylift on which to place a coach is just one of them.

[TampaSteve]

Good points, Atl.  Just don't bring that lift to coach in this neck of the woods. 

[JimD]

True. However, it would seem only fair that if A is on a skylift coaching in the EZ then B should be offered that same perk.
If I'm not mistaken, my State addressed this a few years back.  I seem to think they said one can film from there, but not coach.

They are offered the same perk - at United Rent All. 

[Curious]

They are welcome to bring their own Skylift and coach from there as well, sure.  But it's not up to the home team to provide it for them.

Tres generoso!

I have state of the art headphones for press box to sideline communication.  My visiting opponent doesn't.  Do I have to get him a set?

Maybe HIS are better....and can you really be sure?

I have 12 assistant coaches, many with college and professional experience.  My opponet only has 3 assistants.  Do I have to loan him some of mine?

How are they communicating to you and your players during the contest?

My players have Riddell Revo helmets that have far better concussion protection than the old Bike helmets being worn by my opponent.  Do I have to make sure his helmets are as good as mine?

Would that it were possible to have a level playing field and equal budgets.  Maybe Obama can legislate some redistribution of wealth

There are plenty of legal differences between schools.  Having a Skylift on which to place a coach is just one of them.

You're right here AB; there are plenty of "differences".  But there is one Coaches Code of Ethics; which, in part, says:
1. The function of a coach is to educate through athletics...
2. The coach should be aware that he or she has a tremendous influence...on the the student and, thus, should never place the value of winning above the value of instilling the highest ideals of character
3.The coach should learn and teach the contest rules....and not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules

Aren't we all just looking for a fair opportunity to compete?

[RickKY]

Perhaps there is an outage in the rules.  Rule 1 covers coaches equipment, mostly used for communications.  There is no mention of a press box, or using it for coaching purposes.  There is a limit on the coaches use of the sideline/team box though. 

I had a situation at a game a few years back when the visitors' coach was denied access to the press box, even though the home team coaches were using it.  When our crew was approached with this compaint from the visitors, we referred them to game management, the home AD.  It was resolved without our crew involvement.

I am not keen on permitting the use of coaches outside the team box within the confines of the field.  The problem is where to draw the line.  Is there a real difference between a coach behind the end line on the ground versus on a scissor lift?  I think not.  What if he were in the front row of bleachers behind the opponents team box?  Is that very different from being in the press box?

[AlUpstateNY]

Aren't we all just looking for a fair opportunity to compete?

Yes we are, and officials are assigned responsibility for a specific set of issues that do NOT cover issues such as this.  This is clearly a game management and/or leage/conference administrative issue and is beyond field officials responsibility or control.