Author Topic: Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball  (Read 8694 times)

FrankNFHS

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Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball
« on: October 23, 2011, 08:58:46 AM »
This came up in a PONY game that I figured I better get it answered from a Fed perspective as we are getting more and more high school games (practice and scrimmages) scheduled here for this beautiful time of year.  I know it's softball but any and all feedback (to baseball or softball under Fed is welcomed)

PONY Softball

First baseman gets grounder in her LEFT hand as she turns and makes the play and falls in doing so...no issue with ball being securely held, etc.   As batter runner is running to first base, first baseman who is still on the ground lunges over and slaps first base with her RIGHT hand which is not holding the ball.  Ruling: The batter runner is out as this is a legal touch (this is taken right out of the PONY rule book which lists a number of cases and rulings).

Question:
Under Fed....would this also be an out in either baseball or softball.  I have been under the impression that in this scenario there could be an out if the base was touched by the hand or glove where the ball is held.


mbyron

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Re: Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 09:21:23 AM »
Think of it this way: would it be an out if the fielder tagged the base with his foot? If so, why not another body part (including the glove, which when worn properly is part of the fielder)?

In all levels of baseball, this is an out. I guess the confusion comes from the fact that a RUNNER must be tagged with the ball; the rule is different for tagging a base for a force play or appeal.

FrankNFHS

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Re: Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 09:24:50 AM »
Aha....this is a good way to picture it that will help me remember this as well.

Many thanks!  (I was told that in USSSA youth baseball, this would not be a legal touch but the person couldn't point me to a reference....but again...my focus here is Fed).

Good to know and as you described...makes sense.

FrankNFHS

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Re: Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 09:43:48 AM »
Got the following from an umpire offline...

8.4.2.j (pg 54 of 2011 rulebook) speaks to the runner being out if (force play) the fielder while holding the ball touches the base.



mbyron

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Re: Touching Base with Hand Not Holding Ball
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 11:03:56 AM »
Got the following from an umpire offline...

8.4.2.j (pg 54 of 2011 rulebook) speaks to the runner being out if (force play) the fielder while holding the ball touches the base.
Remember that for NFHS, rules are written with dashes: 8-4-2j does mention holding the ball and touching a base, but a better reference would give you the definition rather than a mention of the term.

The correct reference is 2-24-1, which defines the term "force-out," and rule 2-24 generally, which defines the kinds of outs:
"A force-out is a putout during which a runner who is being forced
to advance is tagged out, or is put out by a fielder who holds the ball while touching
the base toward which the forced runner is advancing."

For basic questions such as these, rule 2 is where you want to look (true also in pro rules), since that's where the definitions are.