Motion - but is it legal??

[MidwestVet]

We seem to have a general concensus that it is illegal formation. And I sense that the reason it is illegal is that he doesn't meet the definition of a Lineman since his shoulders are not parrallel to the LOS. 

What if at the last minute A24 turns to face his opponents, thereby now having his shoulders parrallel, and for the last two steps of his motion is now shuffling his feet.  I cannot find anything now that makes this illegal.  I think it will still look 'wrong' - but I can't find a specific rule that he is in violation of.  Not illegal motion, formation, or false start.

[Bob M.]

Illegal shift is defined as two or more players in motion at the same time and we don't have all A players set at the same time for a full second, isn't it? 

REPLY: IMHO, I disagree. Two or more players in motion at the snap is prohibited by rule 7-2-7 ("ART. 7 . . . Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line....") Then look at the penalty section right below this near the bottom of p. 58. It says that a violation of article 7 is illegal motion. It would become an illegal shift if one of the two stopped (shifted) and the other continued in motion through the snap. But two moving at the snap is illegal motion.

I would agree that IF might be the most correct call.

[VALJ]

Fair point, Bob - couldn't put my hands on that page.  Thanks for setting me straight.

[mbyron]

OK, Do you agree that OP is illegal or not then? Is it IF?
He was shaving at one point in his motion though, don't you think?
I never said the back was shaving at the snap, I was answering the question asked by Jason Kramer.

I posted my thought: illegal formation.

I apologize for suggesting your claim was shaving at the snap.

[mbyron]

Illegal shift is defined as two or more players in motion at the same time and we don't have all A players set at the same time for a full second, isn't it?  Can't be an IS.  I don't have it as illegal motion, either, unless he's actually moving forward at he snap.  I'll buy an illegal formation, though.

That's the NCAA rule, which defines a shift as two or more in motion.

The NFHS rule does not require two in motion at the same time to constitute a shift, only a failure of all 11 to come set.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: There's a fundamental difference between a shift and motion that's often lost in translation. Quite simply a player is in motion when he is moving to a new position. In Federation, he has shifted when he reaches a new set position and stops moving. In NCAA, it's not a shift unless two or more players move to new set (i.e stopped moving) positions. But both codes share the same basic definition: motion implies a player is still moving; shift means that a player (or players) who was moving has stopped moving and taken a new set position. Here's how the difference between the two codes demonstrates itself:

PLAY: All eleven Team A players are set. On signal, A80 moves (in motion) from the slot out toward a wide receiver position. He gets to that position and stops. Less than one second later the ball is snapped. RULING: Federation -- illegal shift. The movement of a single player to a new set position constitutes a shift. All eleven must be set for a second prior to the snap. NCAA -- Legal. Movement of a single player to a new set position is not a shift. Hence, there's no one-second set requirement after A80 comes set.