Rules Book on the field?

[bigjohn]

In Ohio I am pretty sure the officials are supposed to have a copy of the Rulles on the field. Is that true and do any other states do this?

3. Rules Knowledge
Be a rules expert! When a rule is “kicked” all crew members are equally to blame. When a
coach requests a conference to review a perceived misapplication of a rule, use the rule book.

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/manual.pdf

[HLinNC]

 

[JimD]

In Missouri, officials do not carry a rule book on the field.  Coaches may carry one and may refer to it in a conference with the officials if they have a rules question/problem.  The officials will help the coaches find the appropriate rule.  The coach having a rule book on the field is optional, but no problem if they want to refer to it during the discussion.

I've only had this happen once.  It wasn't as helpful as I thought because there is so much more than just reading the rule - there is all the cases, the discussions, the interpretations, etc. that go into it. 

[Tom.OH]

John, Ohio crews no longer carry the rule book to the field. We did not have on the field but instead in the linesmans bag (under the visitors bench or where ever kept). Our new mechanics "the gold book" do not list it as required.

[New Back]

Tom,
This is true however, Dr. Maurer just sent out an email to all tournament officials stating that it is now written that the crew will carry the rules book out to the field.  It goes on to say, "If the HC and the officials disagree on a ruling, then EVERY CREW IS REQUIRED TO SHOW THE HC IN THE RULES &/or CASE BOOK what the ruling states.

Just FYI

[bigjohn]

The quote I posted is from the Coaches and Officials Manual. Are you not held to what it says there?
I have never seen this magic bag you speak of.
!!!

http://ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/manual.pdf

And three cheers for Dr. Maurer

[WVABJ1807]

This is a stupid rule.  I would never carry a rulebook out on the field. I know the rules, my crew knows the rules.  If something happens and we are unsure, we get together and come up with the best solution possible.  You dont see college guys carrying around rule books.  If you dont know the rules, then get off the field.  Most coaches dont know the rules well enough to challenge anything anyway.  If we carried rule books in WV, then games would last 5 hours.  Coaches would be asking us to look at a rule all the time.  I dont carry one in baseball and will not let a coach come out with a rule book to challenge me.  What a dumb idea that is.

[Curious]

One of the strangest (and funniest) things I've ever seen was a couple years ago during a 9th-week (televised) game to determine play-off eligibility.  The game ended in a tie.  In one of the play-off periods, during a 1st down running play, there was a BIG loss but the runner was tackled by the facemask.  Of course, after enforcement, should have left the offense with 1st and goal from the 25 (if my memory serves me correctly) yd line.

However, the officials got "confused" and, after enforcement, re-set the chains making it 1st and 10!!

At some point, prior to the next RFP, someone from the defensive sideline realized the mistake, called time out and asked for a conference with the R.  The officials listened but could not agree on the correct enforcement during the OT.  Finally, apparently, someone suggested they look at the rule - but there WAS no rulebook around.  Someone on the sideline (maybe a non-working official) told the team questioning the enforcement that he had one in his car.  They dispatched him to get it; and 20 minutes later, he returned,  The officials looked up the appropriate case book play and, fortunately, corrected the error.     

[Atlanta Blue]

This is a stupid rule.  I would never carry a rulebook out on the field. I know the rules, my crew knows the rules.  If something happens and we are unsure, we get together and come up with the best solution possible.  You dont see college guys carrying around rule books.  If you dont know the rules, then get off the field.  Most coaches dont know the rules well enough to challenge anything anyway.  If we carried rule books in WV, then games would last 5 hours.  Coaches would be asking us to look at a rule all the time.  I dont carry one in baseball and will not let a coach come out with a rule book to challenge me.  What a dumb idea that is.

Did you and every member of your crew get 100% correct on your part 1 and 2 tests?  There are PLENTY of times where officials don't know the rule.  I had a WH this year tell me that DPI carried a loss of down on the enforcement!  Don't be so arrogant, and don't think that SOME coaches may not know a particular rule better than you do.  And it's not THAT a coach may challange you with a rule book, it's HOW he challanges you with the rule book.  If he comes walking on the field waving it and yelling that you are wrong, of course he should get flagged.  But if he calls time and asks if he can show you the exact rule in question, why would you not allow it?

All that being said, I don't think officials need or should be carrying books on the field.  But they should have one on site if needed.  Even Ed Armbrister, MLB umpire, sent the 3B U back into the locker room to look a rule a couple of years back, and it was a rule so simple that any first year ump worth his salt should have known.

Brain farts can happen to anyone, coaches and officials alike.

[WVABJ1807]

im sorry there was no need to delay that game for that long for that stupid rule.  If you dont know how to enforce penalties, then you either dont need to be working that calibur of a game, or varsity games period.  I would not hold up my game for that long.  If my crew screws this up, then we will take the blame for it..

[WVABJ1807]

we have rule books in the locker room to see if we missed something, but i am not stopping the game to get my book out to look at it.  If i cant answer his question, then i dont need to be working.  And yes everyone on my crew did get 100 on the test. 

[Atlanta Blue]

im sorry there was no need to delay that game for that long for that stupid rule.  If you dont know how to enforce penalties, then you either dont need to be working that calibur of a game, or varsity games period.

Well, it would be that CALIBER of a game, but I agree, there are PLENTY of officials working varsity games right now that have no business doing so.  Unfortunately, it's not like there is an abundance of officials, so we get what we get.

we have rule books in the locker room to see if we missed something,

By that point, it's too late.

If i cant answer his question, then i dont need to be working.

Wow, an official that has never made a mistake!  When are you moving to Georgia?  I can make sure you get some great games. 

[WVABJ1807]

i know its too late, but im not holding up a game to look up a rule and look like i dont know the rules.  I know the rules.  I may forget one, but someone on our crew always knows how to handle a situation.  If we dont do it right and sell it as good as we possibly can, then we can get away with it.

[Curious]

Brain farts can happen to anyone, coaches and officials alike.

As a coach, AB, do YOU have a rule and/or case book handy on the sideline in case of such a phenomenon?  I sure as hell would if I were a coach - and I'd know how to get to the reference needed (or have an assistant assigned to know it....

[Atlanta Blue]

As a coach, AB, do YOU have a rule and/or case book handy on the sideline in case of such a phenomenon?  I sure as hell would if I were a coach - and I'd know how to get to the reference needed (or have an assistant assigned to know it....

They are in my bag, which is with me whether I am on the sideline or in the press box.  And if I'm in the press box, I am on the headphone with our head coach and giving him rule numbers for his discussion if needed.

And it has helped.  We had a crew totally botch a USC enforcement after a score a couple of years ago (the year before the change when it could only be taken on the try).  When we told the official the rule and rule number , he spent ten minutes (yes, we had a clock on it because it was a TV game) with his crew, and then came back saying, "Coach, it sems you are pretty sure about this and we aren't, but since you've quoted the rule, we're ruling it the way you suggested."  Unbelievable.

And to be honest, I have a NFHS rule and case book, an NCAA rule and stat book, and an NFL rule and stat book, since I work with all three rules sets.  And yes, my bag is getting d@mn heavy.

[GAHSUMPIRE]

They are in my bag, which is with me whether I am on the sideline or in the press box.  And if I'm in the press box, I am on the headphone with our head coach and giving him rule numbers for his discussion if needed.

And it has helped.  We had a crew totally botch a USC enforcement after a score a couple of years ago (the year before the change when it could only be taken on the try).  When we told the official the rule and rule number , he spent ten minutes (yes, we had a clock on it because it was a TV game) with his crew, and then came back saying, "Coach, it sems you are pretty sure about this and we aren't, but since you've quoted the rule, we're ruling it the way you suggested."  Unbelievable.

And to be honest, I have a NFHS rule and case book, an NCAA rule and stat book, and an NFL rule and stat book, since I work with all three rules sets.  And yes, my bag is getting d@mn heavy.

AB, seems like you keep getting bad crews. Perhaps its time to give another association a shot. 

[HLinNC]

Totally off subject AB but wasn't Ed Ambrister the pinch hitter for Cincy in the '75 World Series that caused  Fisk to over throw 2B on the throw after his bunt.  Larry Barnette did not rule interference and caused a big flap.

I too am unfamiliar with this "linesman's bag" of which has been spoke.  My stuff is on me or in my pockets or with the chain crew.  There is a "linesman's cooler" but it is certainly not brought out on to the field where children might be frolicking about. <insert Silver Bullet thingy here>

[Atlanta Blue]

Totally off subject AB but wasn't Ed Ambrister the pinch hitter for Cincy in the '75 World Series that caused  Fisk to over throw 2B on the throw after his bunt.  Larry Barnette did not rule interference and caused a big flap.

Wow, there's one of those brain farts!  See, they can happen at any time.  It was Ed Montague.

[Atlanta Blue]

AB, seems like you keep getting bad crews. Perhaps its time to give another association a shot. 

Actually, it was a road game.  And the state Assoc Director is one of their alums!

[bigjohn]

I know on the old NFHS site more than one guy said they would flag me, a lowly assistant for producing a rules book on the sideline!

[GoodScout]

Actually, it was a road game.  And the state Assoc Director is one of their alums!

Since I think I know which association you're talking about, and since I'm also one of their alums, your story gives me a sad. 

[bama_stripes]

Wow, there's one of those brain farts!  See, they can happen at any time.  It was Ed Montague.

According to the Baseball Almanac, it was indeed Larry Barnett.  He ruled the collision was neither interference nor obstruction, but just a "train wreck."

From the official box score:

U–Larry Barnett (AL), Dick Stello (NL), George Maloney (AL), Satch Davidson (NL), Nick Colosi (NL), Art Frantz (AL). 

[GAHSUMPIRE]

Actually, it was a road game.  And the state Assoc Director is one of their alums!

Well, you can't blame a guy for trying.

[Kalle]

I don't know how well the NFHS rule book is written, but in the NCAA perspective the problem I have with bringing the rule book to the sideline (the chain crew could easily keep it, that's not an issue) is the complexity of the rules. If I'm unsure about a ruling, I need to look at rule 2 (usually 2-3 separate places), one of rules 5-7, maybe rule 8, and most likely rule 10, too. This is not exactly trivial to do, and might take quite a long time.

And, even using this process, I often manage to get at least one of the questions in Rom's weekly quizzes wrong, so it's not like I would be 100% on the field under the heat of the moment.

[Atlanta Blue]

According to the Baseball Almanac, it was indeed Larry Barnett.  He ruled the collision was neither interference nor obstruction, but just a "train wreck."

From the official box score:

U–Larry Barnett (AL), Dick Stello (NL), George Maloney (AL), Satch Davidson (NL), Nick Colosi (NL), Art Frantz (AL).

We're talking about different plays.  I was referencing the "add a run three innings later" debacle in Cleveland in 2007.  The crew chief was Ed Montague.  I mistakenly said Ed Armbrister.  Armbrister (and the crew from his game) was never supposed to be part of this story!