Author Topic: 2011 Playoffs  (Read 91906 times)

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Offline Etref

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2011, 02:36:41 PM »
Coach A wanted to use Joe's crew and Coach B wanted to use Jims crew. Rather than accept what the other wanted the go "pot luck" with someone neither has ever used.


Go figure................... hEaDbAnG
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jimbowie

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2011, 05:21:48 PM »
Ah, the magic of the Texas playoffs!  Tonight, a crew from Houston has journeyed to Mansfield, just south of Dallas-Fort Worth, for a 7:30 ball game.  After officiating a high competitive upper level game and (hopefully, for the benefit of their crewmates) a quick shower, they'll jump into cars to travel 250 miles south to Houston.  Approximately 9 hours after arriving back in Houston, this group of middle-aged+ guys will be in the dressing room at Galena Park ISD Stadium to work a 2 pm playoff game, their second contest in less than 18 hours.

I guess I'd have to have brain surgery to understand the thought process of the coaches involved OR the Houston Chapter "leadership" on this matter.  But a more pointed question is directed to those five individuals who apparently have the excellent judgment skills to officiate these two games back-to-back -- Did you ever consider turning back one of the assignments and encouraging all involved to select another capable crew?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2011, 06:35:24 PM »
That's nothing.  I know of a crew that worked a game at Noon last Saturday, drove 90 miles and worked a second game that day starting at 7:30.

jimbowie

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2011, 09:15:59 PM »
Oink!! Such behavior can't be justified by any standard.  Even IF they're the "best crew in the state" (and this is highly subjective), they can't be at anywhere near peak performance in a second game in 24 hours.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2011, 09:51:38 PM »
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A bit rude of you to infer that the chapter just doesn't have good officials.

Nothing rude at all, since I didn't say or come close to inferring that. On the other hand, its a bit arrogant of you to assume your chapter doesn't need any further training. I'll take all I can get.

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The problem is not with the officials, the problem is with the coach.

Look, you can think what you want. But if this is your attitude, why don't you just quit? You're never going to convince the coach of this, so do something productive instead: get better. That doesn't imply that you or anyone else is bad, just that we all can use improvement. Take this as a challenge to work harder and let the results speak for themselves.

I'm sorry, but blaming others for your issues isn't going to help you. And yes, that's exactly what you're doing. If the Austin chapter was as good as you say it is, why did the coaches go outside? I don't think the coaches are going to settle for what they know would be a worse group of officials simply because they fear one crew or one crew chief knows the other coach better than he/they know him.

I'm in a chapter that doesn't get what we feel are our "fair" share of games. My response: yes, we need to see what efforts we might make with the coaches, but before we do that, we need to get better. We need to get our butts in better shape, learn the rules better, quit screwing up penalty enforcements, and get more consistent among crews. Among many other things.

Besides, did it ever dawn on you that while the Austin chapter missed out on the game you referenced, at one time or another they benefitted from that same scenario that took place with another chapter?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2011, 09:54:08 PM »
Okay, you're obviously a troll.  Go away. 

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2011, 10:25:37 PM »
Name calling when you're proven wrong? And you're really an official?

Whatever. Nobody is going to read my post and come to your conclusion, but if it makes you feel better, so be it.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2011, 10:28:40 PM »
If you didn't so grossly misinterpret and misread what I wrote, I might have a conversation with you.  But thanks, you've shown you aren't capable of that.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2011, 10:37:41 PM »
I'm not going to continue this on a forum. You can email me.

I didn't misrepresent anything. I posted your quote and responded.

Its obvious I struck a nerve and hurt your feelings. That wasn't my intention, but I really can't believe you are this sensitive to criticism. Sheesh. And personal attacks aren't going to enhance your reputation any. You called me a troll and then said I'm incapable of conversation? Really, how silly is that?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2011, 10:49:38 PM »
Troll.  Look it up on Wikipedia.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2011, 11:40:08 PM »
I know what it means. You're the one that looks silly.

Hank

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2011, 12:51:48 AM »
That's nothing.  I know of a crew that worked a game at Noon last Saturday, drove 90 miles and worked a second game that day starting at 7:30.

Well, at least the Houston Chapter wouldn't allow that.  1 game/day limit.  You can have 3 in a weekend, but has to be 3 days.

Offline TXMike

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2011, 07:46:09 AM »
Nothing rude at all, since I didn't say or come close to inferring that. On the other hand, its a bit arrogant of you to assume your chapter doesn't need any further training. I'll take all I can get.

---- Take this as a challenge to work harder and let the results speak for themselves.

------If the Austin chapter was as good as you say it is, why did the coaches go outside? I don't think the coaches are going to settle for what they know would be a worse group of officials simply because they fear one crew or one crew chief knows the other coach better than he/they know him.

I doubt any of the regular posters on here would ever say their chapter or any other chapter does not need any further traning, and that is NOT what Doc is saying.

You, on the other hand, are  directly saying the reason the Chapter did not get the game was because of some deficiency.  What facts do you base that on?  As Rick pointed out above, there are reasons why coaches will go outside the Chapter that have NOTHING to do with the Chapter's overall abilities.  Possibilities:
1 - Each one had his own list of preferred officials in the Chapter and they were totally different lists.  Since they could not agree within that Chapter, they went to another.  By going to another the coaches are in effect saying they trust the other Chapter will have competent officials but they know that neither one of them will have any "influence" over the crew.

2 - The officials they could agree on were already committed to other games or were otherwise unavailable.

3 - They know they will not be able to use their own Chapter in later rounds and want to go ahead and start using officials from other Chapters now. 

These are the same 2 coaches who have some sort of agreement between themselves that resulted in the chains being operated on the home team sideline. 

Bottom line, trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.  Good luck and it ain't always what it seems.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2011, 01:26:17 PM »
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You, on the other hand, are  directly saying the reason the Chapter did not get the game was because of some deficiency.

I never said that there was a deficiency. What I said was that there was OBVIOUSLY a reason the coach didn't pick the Austin chapter. Why? Who knows. It could be something very stupid on his (or their) part(s). What I did say, and what I still believe is that we ALL should take these sorts of things as a challenge to work harder, get better, and make any reasonable decision on future playoff assignments easy for coaches. If they aren't going to be reasonable, then there's nothing we can do about it. But I didn't figure I really needed to emphasize such an obvious point. I also didn't figure I needed to point out that if coaches aren't going to be reasonable, there isn't any point in going and talking to them. I figured Doc was smart enough to know all that.

I NEVER SAID THAT THE COACHES' REASONS WERE JUSTIFIED AND THEREFORE AUSTIN SUCKS. I don't believe either statement (or anything close to them) to be true. You can't argue on one hand that "we all need to get better" is a valid point but on the other hand saying that with respect to Austin and this particular playoff assignment is somehow insulting the chapter. If its valid for one person its valid for everyone and it doesn't insult anyone.

I didn't get a state title game this year (or probably won't -- not holding my breath anyway). Does that mean there's a deficiency in my game? I don't think of it as a deficiency (i.e. a point where I screw up continuously), but I do take it as a challenge to get better for next year starting now. My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us. At least, that's what I'll try to do.

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Bottom line, trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.

I couldn't agree with you more here. But you left out three key points in the discussion: the part where Doc suggested someone go talk to the coach -- as stated earlier, why would that do any good if the reasons for not picking the chapter aren't reasonable? Also, the part where I stated that I am in a chapter that, mathematically at least, doesn't get what we think our fair share of the playoff games are, yet my view is not to complain about it but work harder and make the choice obvious. Lofty goal? Perhaps, but I have a habit of setting (and sometimes reaching) lofty goals. Finally, the point about Austin benefitting in the past from a similar situation in another chapter. I'm sure you would agree with me that this situation had to have occurred at one point in time or another. You seem to be focusing on points I didn't make and ignoring points I did.

Look, I don't want to ruin this thread more than it is -- and I'll take partial responsibility for that. But I didn't start this. So please, continue this discussion by message on here. I still don't understand why the defensiveness to the idea of "we all need to get better" exists, or to the idea that coaches picks may not make sense so we need to take that as a challenge to work harder. I'm sorry but that is NOT denigrating anyone, and it baffles me that you would argue it is.

But even with all that, calling me a troll is hardly productive and just as unreasonable as any actions any coach might have made that Doc is complaining about. You have a hard time trying to make the point that I'm blasting the Austin chapter, which is a bad thing on my part, but its OK for you to blast me. I don't care what I'm called, but I was hoping we could keep a mature level of discussion on here.

Offline TXMike

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2011, 01:38:49 PM »
I didn't get a state title game this year (or probably won't -- not holding my breath anyway). Does that mean there's a deficiency in my game? I don't think of it as a deficiency (i.e. a point where I screw up continuously), but I do take it as a challenge to get better for next year starting now. My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us.


How long have you been officiating?  You don't know what was going on there?

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2011, 01:52:44 PM »
25+ years, multiple sports. I know exactly what was going on. But he did use our chapter (he uses another one for home games) and I was told by our assignment committee that we were in the mix. We got another game that week.

Hank

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2011, 01:52:55 PM »
...trying to comprehend coach reasoning is a lot like trying to understand why women do what they do.

 LOL

Possibly the funniest thing I've seen posted on Refstripes.

 LOL LOL LOL LOL

Offline TXMike

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2011, 01:57:59 PM »
25+ years, multiple sports. I know exactly what was going on. But he did use our chapter (he uses another one for home games) and I was told by our assignment committee that we were in the mix. We got another game that week.

You  knew what was going on yet you used the non-selection as a reason why you needed to work harder?  While I agree we probably all need to work harder and can improve by doing so, I certainly would not use a non-selection as a reason why i need to do so.

El Macman

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2011, 01:53:20 PM »
My crew was told by a coach he would likely pick us for a playoff game. That didn't happen. I'm going to work my butt off so next time I work his game, we'll leave no doubt he should pick us. At least, that's what I'll try to do.

Sad state of affairs when we work to meet the expectations of coaches. I'm not a judge - I don't even play one on tv. But, I'm pretty certain they don't concern themselves about what the prosecutors and defendants think about their ability to serve as their judge. Oh, yeah, but then, prosecutors and defendents don't get to pick their judges. Hmmm. Which system is defective...

Offline clearwall

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2011, 10:42:05 AM »
Sad state of affairs when we work to meet the expectations of coaches. I'm not a judge - I don't even play one on tv. But, I'm pretty certain they don't concern themselves about what the prosecutors and defendants think about their ability to serve as their judge. Oh, yeah, but then, prosecutors and defendents don't get to pick their judges. Hmmm. Which system is defective...

So you're comparing the US Justice System to the UIL? Seems pretty appropriate to me

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2011, 11:13:45 AM »
So you're comparing the US Justice System to the UIL? Seems pretty appropriate to me

 ^flag

Sorry! But I'd have to take a chance on rolling my dice with the U. S. Justice System when compared to the "jurisprudence" that  tiphat: Manor Road  :bOW  :!# would like to richly dole out!   z^

Offline clearwall

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2011, 04:46:48 PM »
^flag

Sorry! But I'd have to take a chance on rolling my dice with the U. S. Justice System when compared to the "jurisprudence" that  tiphat: Manor Road  :bOW  :!# would like to richly dole out!   z^

I concur, sir

Hank

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2011, 12:27:37 AM »
Houston got 3 this weekend.  1 being the 3A state championship game.

Offline TXMike

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2011, 03:11:14 PM »
Read 'em and weep boys!   Thanks Doc for updating the list.  The latest and greatest:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls

Offline TexDoc

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Re: 2011 Playoffs
« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2011, 03:25:22 PM »
Read 'em and weep boys!   Thanks Doc for updating the list.  The latest and greatest:

http://www.safootballchapter.us/2011TRNY.xls

Had to make one assumption.  We will see if its right.