Author Topic: Penn State  (Read 25235 times)

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2011, 09:34:02 AM »
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Joe-Paterno-told-a-grand-jury-he-8216-knew-ina?urn=ncaaf-wp11597

Paterno did not inform police and waited several days to meet with his boss, athletic director Tim Curley, because he "didn't want to interfere with their weekends


Thank you for the reference to the above report, which concludes with the following, "Legally, prosecutors have determined that McQueary, Paterno and Spanier fulfilled their obligations under state law and are not expected to face charges."

Although much has been documented about the continuing relationship and priviledged position Sandusky maintained with PSU, following his resignation after being advised he would not be considered by Coach Paterno as a replacement, I haven't seen anything about whether or not there was any level of personal relationship maintained between Sandusky and Coach Paterno after the retirement. 

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2011, 09:45:16 AM »
Thank you for the reference to the above report, which concludes with the following, "Legally, prosecutors have determined that McQueary, Paterno and Spanier fulfilled their obligations under state law and are not expected to face charges."

Dayum!!!!  Why didn't I figure this out before? ? ? ?   "AlUpstateNY"    You are really Al Gore right?   Cause your "no controlling legal authority" HORSE HOCKEY sounds just like him!!!   Who cares if it was legal or not?   it was WRONG even if your namby pamby self refuses to admit it.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2011, 09:00:23 AM »
Dayum!!!!  Why didn't I figure this out before? ? ? ?   "AlUpstateNY"    You are really Al Gore right?   Cause your "no controlling legal authority" HORSE HOCKEY sounds just like him!!!   Who cares if it was legal or not?   it was WRONG even if your namby pamby self refuses to admit it.

I guess that's just part of the consequences of realizing that I'm not perfect.  Joe Paterno has acknowledged he was wrong, and in hind sight, wishes he had done more.  Like the rest of us admittedly un-perfect slobs, he'll have to deal with his mistake and move forward trying to do better.

Now if he was perfect, like you apparently see yourself TXMike, he couild climb up on a self constructed pulpit of all that is good and holy and lecture everybody on how things should always be done.

Actually, TXMike, I think you and Al Gore are way more alike, you both think you know everything, are always quick to hammer everyone else you decide have done something wrong, apparently thinking that by highlighting the mistakes of others, you somehow make yourself look better.  Unfortunately, that doesn't always work as a lot of people still see Mr. Gore as just a windbag.  Perhaps something else you and Mr. Gore have in common.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2012, 11:39:15 AM »
It looks like it's all in the hands of the ultimate "Instant Replay, which is where it ultimately winds up and is really the only review that matters.  Rest in Peace, Coach Paterno.

Like most of us hope to accomplish, your final tally shows a lot more good, for your having passed this way and the positive effect you've had on others, far outweighing those missteps you, like all the rest of us, may have made along the way.  Condolences to your family.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2012, 12:17:03 PM »
Maybe on your balance sheet that is how it looks but on mine. If one single kid was sexually abused AFTER the shower incident, Paterno bears responsibility, and that most certainly is NOT outweighed "by all the good".

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2012, 04:39:33 PM »
I guess I'm just not as perfect as you seem to think you are Mike, nor do I think anyone else gives a rat's BUTT about my personal balance sheet.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2012, 06:45:07 PM »
You are not alone.  There are plenty of others who are giving paterno a walk in exchange for all his "good deeds".  But I suspect none of you have never been abused or known anyone close to you havd been.  I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune if you had.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2012, 12:28:25 PM »
Carrying a grudge, or a chip on your shoulder, even when it's understandable can become a really heavy load when carried too long.  Joe Paterno is responsible for everything HE did, or didn't do, not everything that's ever been done.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2012, 12:30:58 PM »
He is responsible for everything that was done and permitted to be done thanks to his "action" or lack therof.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2012, 11:55:16 AM »
He is responsible for everything that was done and permitted to be done thanks to his "action" or lack therof.

I'm not anyway sure I understand what you might mean by, "thanks to his "action" or lack therof", but it sounds like a standard very few, IF ANYBODY, could possibly live up to. 

I've got my hands absolutely full dealing with the responsibility for my own behavior, there's no way I could handle the responsibility for what others might do, on their own, totally beyond my control, or very likely, even awareness.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2012, 12:47:33 PM »
Let me spell it out for you...
Had Paterno acted responsibly as sopon as he had the information from the red headed idiot, it is likely Sandusky would have been stopped from doing any further abuse soon thereafter. Since he did not act responsibly, if any other kids were abused by Sandusky after that point, paterno bears some responsibility for permitting it to occur

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2012, 01:17:28 PM »
Just an observation... nothing more:

It strikes me as being odd that little, if any, fingers have been pointed in the direction of the "red headed idiot", as Mike has characterized McQueary. It seems to me like he (McQueary) stuck his head in the sand once he brought the alleged transgression to JoPa's attention. Or have I missed something?
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2012, 01:37:57 PM »
He is being given a "walk" because: 1 - "He was young and by reporting it to King Paterno he did his duty" and 2 - He was apparently a key witness against Sandusky in the grand jury and will be at trial also. 

I guess I just don't know any man who would have run away like a little biatch instead of stepping in at the moment he saw what was happening in the shower. Maybe that is why his "action" seem so foreign.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2012, 09:23:15 AM »
Let me spell it out for you...
Had Paterno acted responsibly as sopon as he had the information from the red headed idiot, it is likely Sandusky would have been stopped from doing any further abuse soon thereafter. Since he did not act responsibly, if any other kids were abused by Sandusky after that point, paterno bears some responsibility for permitting it to occur

According to what I've read, Paterno reported it to, what he considered the appropriate source, the day after the evening he was advised of the incident.  They apparently then met with the accuser to get the story first hand to initiate what Paterno believed (as history showed to be inaccurate) an appropriate investigation.

Where exactly did "irresponsible" happen?  Paterno subsequently acknowledged, given the benefit of hindsight, he wished he had followed progress closer, but he assumed, again incorrectly, that the people he referred the matter to, were handling it properly. 

Suggesting, "if any other kids were abused by Sandusky after that point, paterno bears some responsibility for permitting it to occur" is as misguided as someone complaining, "if you didn't throw that flag, we would have won." 

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2012, 09:32:58 AM »

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »
According to what I've read, Paterno reported it to, what he considered the appropriate source, the day after the evening he was advised of the incident.  .....
Where exactly did "irresponsible" happen?  Paterno subsequently acknowledged, given the benefit of hindsight, he wished he had followed progress closer, but he assumed, again incorrectly, that the people he referred the matter to, were handling it properly. 

What had been reported to him was a criminal offense.  If someone who "answers" to you tells you of a criminal offense, are you simply going to push it up the food chain or are you going to make sure the people who are charged with responsibility to deal with this (THE POLICE) are actually aware of it and pursuing it?  Maybe you support cover ups but I don't and I trust the large majority does not either.  Paterno took little interest in what happened after he "reported it".  I don't know this for a fact but i suspect because in his heart of hearts he wanted it to go away as he knew what it would bring on his "dynasty" if it became a criminal investigation.  By doing that he helped ensure Sandusky stayed loose to continually victimize kids. 

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2012, 12:46:35 PM »
What had been reported to him was a criminal offense.  If someone who "answers" to you tells you of a criminal offense, are you simply going to push it up the food chain or are you going to make sure the people who are charged with responsibility to deal with this (THE POLICE) are actually aware of it and pursuing it?
Which is EXACTLY why I don't understand why McQueary is getting a pass.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Grant - AR

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2012, 01:22:10 PM »
If someone who "answers" to you tells you of a criminal offense, are you simply going to push it up the food chain or are you going to make sure the people who are charged with responsibility to deal with this (THE POLICE) are actually aware of it and pursuing it?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Paterno reported it to the "chief" of police (the guy in charge of University police). 

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2012, 01:53:03 PM »
Paterno called the AD a few days after getting the report from the red-headed idiot.  The AD set up a meeting (which Paterno did not attend) where the idiot repeated his story to the AD and the school's senior VP, Gary Schultz.  Schultz oversaw many things at the university and ultimately the University Police Chief answered to him.  But this would be like saying if you reported a crime to the City Manager then you reported it to the police because the city manager supervises the Chief of Police.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2012, 11:01:09 AM »
What had been reported to him was a criminal offense.  If someone who "answers" to you tells you of a criminal offense, are you simply going to push it up the food chain or are you going to make sure the people who are charged with responsibility to deal with this (THE POLICE) are actually aware of it and pursuing it?  Maybe you support cover ups ....

No, I don't support "cover ups", but searching for "fly droppings" in a black pepper wharehouse seems a an excessive, perhaps obsessive effort to me.  You are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts.  Let's get back to reality;  McQuade told Paterno he saw what he considered improper, admitting he left out a lot of details, so what he said exactly, we don't know.  That "report" was obviously troubling enough, although uncorroborated, admittedly lacking detail that Paterno IMMEDIATELY reported it to his superior, who subsequently met with McQuade to get the report 1st hand.

Coach Paterno had no business, no place nor any reason to attend that meeting as he had NO DIRECT information to add to it.  I won't speak for you, TXMike, but I've learned, and expect, those who work for me, to bring problems involving our work environment TO ME, rather than decide when to go over my head, at which point I decide how to address the problem further.  My superiors would expect me to follow a chain of command sequence as well, especially on a sensitive matter that HAD YET TO BE CORROBORATED.

This was not a work team situation, as Mr. Sandusky was retired and no longer part of this work group, or in any way Coach Paterno's responsibility.  Aside from a long, inactive, former work relationship there was no connection.   I'm willing to accept that Coach Paterno understood the "chain of command" at PSU a lot better than you, or I, and referred the matter to the level he believed best able to deal with it.  Without DIRECT knowledge of a crime being committed, it's better to KNOW what you're talking about prior to involving police.  Why McQuade didn't go directly to police is a whole different matter.

You may have chosen to leap onto a white charger and ride off a cliff, BEFORE a serious allegation was substantiated, but Coach Paterno decided to handle it, far more appropriately and involve his superiors for investigation and verification before reporting it TO THEIR SUPERIORS, which in this instance should have included police if the allegation appeared credible. 

Not to be forgotten, the subsequent police investigation, which included a lot of facts and details generally unknown to the public, concluded Coach Paterno's handling of the situation was APPROPRIATE.   The fact a State Police representative, offered an opinion way beyond his grasp or authority, only served to needlessly inflame the situation with a really stupid and inappropriate personal assessment.

You, TXMike, clearly have a burr up under your saddle about something, and throwing stones at Joe Paterno isn't likely going to help clear it.  None of us are perfect, including Coach Paterno, but considering the legacy he clearly leaves behind and the positive impact he left on a huge number of people, it just doesn't seem worth a lot of effort to focus on a circumstance, clearly outside his direct involvement or control, that in his own hindsight, he admits he would have liked to have handled differently.

Joe Paterno is gone, RIP.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2012, 01:01:37 PM »
Your problem is you want to hide your head in the sand just like Paterno did.  You clearly do not know the facts of the case. It is easier to "justify" what happened when you are going off ignorance of the facts.  I have followed it closely (surprise, surprise) and have read the verbatim transcripts of what the red-headed idiot, Paterno, and others have said.  Paterno clearly knew he was being told the idiot saw a sexual act going on in that shower.  All the rest of your babble is just that ..babble.   

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2012, 06:28:53 PM »
Your problem is you want to hide your head in the sand just like Paterno did.  You clearly do not know the facts of the case. It is easier to "justify" what happened when you are going off ignorance of the facts.  I have followed it closely (surprise, surprise) and have read the verbatim transcripts of what the red-headed idiot, Paterno, and others have said.  Paterno clearly knew he was being told the idiot saw a sexual act going on in that shower.  All the rest of your babble is just that ..babble.

There's a very fine line between "following closely) and obsessing.  You really need to find another subject to occupy yourself.  The dots you are trying so desperately to connect, simply don't reach to where you've already decided they need to go.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2012, 08:25:09 PM »
You don't know squat about the details and you are gonna tell me the dots don't connect?  You sound like some of the scumbag attorneys and subjects I have run up against over the years.  Well guess what..the glove fits so I do not acquit.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2012, 10:12:50 AM »
Enjoy your level of righteousness, with luck and hard work you may live up to it yourself.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Penn State
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2012, 02:26:45 PM »
Hey, Grant, can we put a lid on this thread?
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi