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Author Topic: Horsecollar ? (video)  (Read 15798 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Horsecollar ? (video)
« on: November 19, 2011, 02:22:54 PM »
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Offline GoodScout

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 02:37:03 PM »
Gave us every angle except the one we needed -- the one from behind where the calling official was.
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110

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2011, 02:44:57 PM »
This is convincing enough for me to agree with the flag. Even by what I understand the NCCA interp to be, it seems immediate and direct.
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 03:19:48 PM »
Flag


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Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2011, 04:39:46 PM »
 ^flag
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Offline Sonofanump

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2011, 06:30:26 PM »
I think this needs to be a flag even if technically the runner did not get pulled down immediately or backwards.
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Offline clearwall

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2011, 08:52:39 PM »
Bad call, IMO. First of all, I dont know that the grab was inside the shoulder pad, looked like he just grabbed the jersey by the neck. Also, the pull was straight across, not back and down. Thirdly, the player spun around and went down face-first, not back.
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Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 06:31:32 AM »
As a refresher here's the actual definition from Rule 9:

Horse Collar Tackle
ARTICLE 15. All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 09:22:28 AM »
Horse collar?  Probably, but no definitive view.  Irregardless, an incorrect announcement.  The foul was by the DEFENSE, not the OFFENSE as announced. 
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 09:28:35 AM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on November 20, 2011, 09:22:28 AM
Horse collar?  Probably, but no definitive view.  Irregardless, an incorrect announcement.  The foul was by the DEFENSE, not the OFFENSE as announced.
I have no problem with the announcement. I was taught to use terminology that refers to the team designation when the ball was snapped or free-kicked.

BTW, 9 of us were in a room watching and 9 voices said "horse collar" in unison at the moment it happened.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 09:34:54 AM »
Quote from: Rulesman on November 20, 2011, 09:28:35 AM
I have no problem with the announcement. I was taught to use terminology that refers to the team designation when the ball was snapped or free-kicked.

Then you were taught incorrectly:

2-27-2:

Offensive and Defensive Teams
ARTICLE 2. The offensive team is the team in possession or the team to which
the ball belongs; the defensive team is the opposing team.

A and B remain throughout the play based on possession at the snap, but offense and defense change with possession.
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Offline mishatx

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 09:54:10 AM »
Yes, but the announcements are for the fans and media.  Using "Team A"/"Team B" or switching the designations of offense/defense mid-down will only confuse them.
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 10:23:13 AM »
Quote from: mishatx on November 20, 2011, 09:54:10 AM
Yes, but the announcements are for the fans and media.  Using "Team A"/"Team B" or switching the designations of offense/defense mid-down will only confuse them.

Then use the color or the name of the team, not the wrong definition.  While calling them the defense might be confusing to the uninformed, calling them the offense is simply wrong by rule.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 11:49:09 AM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on November 20, 2011, 09:34:54 AM
Then you were taught incorrectly:

2-27-2:

Offensive and Defensive Teams
ARTICLE 2. The offensive team is the team in possession or the team to which
the ball belongs; the defensive team is the opposing team.

A and B remain throughout the play based on possession at the snap, but offense and defense change with possession.
How about doing it your way when you become the supervisor?
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"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 01:12:06 PM »
Quote from: Rulesman on November 20, 2011, 11:49:09 AM
How about doing it your way when you become the supervisor?

Why don't you show me a NCAA D1 conference memo that says you should ignore the rules and announce it this way?

Why not just call all BIB clipping too, becasue the public understand it better?  Let me guess, you're still announcing "Illegal Procedure" too?

And don't forget to announce the ball was still live because it was a latteral!   
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2011, 02:15:59 PM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on November 20, 2011, 01:12:06 PM
Why don't you show me a NCAA D1 conference memo that says you should ignore the rules and announce it this way?

Why not just call all BIB clipping too, becasue the public understand it better?  Let me guess, you're still announcing "Illegal Procedure" too?

And don't forget to announce the ball was still live because it was a latteral!
You're the one with the attitude... in more than one thread today, I might add.
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"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline zebra99

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2011, 06:47:12 PM »
Quote from: Atlanta Blue on November 20, 2011, 01:12:06 PM
Why don't you show me a NCAA D1 conference memo that says you should ignore the rules and announce it this way?

Why not just call all BIB clipping too, becasue the public understand it better?  Let me guess, you're still announcing "Illegal Procedure" too?

And don't forget to announce the ball was still live because it was a latteral!

ABlue:

do you really think making such an announcement is the same as ignoring the rules?  and why do you toss out such venom?  We're all brothers here.  Lighten up, please.
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boydmarq

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2011, 06:52:43 PM »
By definition this is a foul, but I'm not sure I would have thrown this flag.  I like to see a "jerk" that could result in an injury. 
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Diablo

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2011, 07:15:59 PM »
Quote from: BJ3 on November 20, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
By definition this is a foul, but I'm not sure I would have thrown this flag.

The definition reads, "... grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down."

Perhaps by current interpretation, but the take down in the video surely did not meet the definition (9-1-15).
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Offline mccormicw

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2011, 03:09:39 PM »
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Horsecollar ? (video)
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2011, 03:13:47 PM »
Not immediately brought down
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