For any officials on this site, OU vs ISU

[cccsdad]

I'll try to be as brief with my initial question.

1) Do you call every penalty EVERY TIME you see it, or are there instances when you keep your flag in your pocket?

I ask this because; In the Oklahoma vs Iowa St. game there was a block in the back called late in the game on an interception which was returned for a touchdown but subsequently called back because of the "block in the back".

Here's what happened, a pass was tipped and intercepted by Oklahoma linebacker Travis Lewis, the play took place at approximately the 40-45 yard line of Oklahoma . Lewis had a convoy of blockers around him, as he reached the  20 yard line of Iowa State. Approximately 10-15 yards behind him Oklahoma defensive lineman Casey Walker and and Iowa State player were running side by side, as the Iowa State player began to run by Walker, Walker gave him a very slight push, it was on the back side of the ISU players shoulder pad. The ISU player was not knocked to the ground or knocked off of his course, as a matter of fact, it was hard to tell if Walker had actually even  made much contact at all. It had absolutely no baring on the outcome of the play.

I argued as an official you have to understand the intent of the rule in order to properly enforce it, I argued under the circumstances, I do not feel as if that call should have been made. Not just because it didn't effect the outcome of the play but rather taking the whole play in it's entirety into consideration, and the fact that very little contact was made.

Am I all wet on this or not?

[Birddog]

This situatiion and the one with the late hit in A&M v Texas game get into the big question of philisophy and letter of the rule.  This philisophy often is set by the supervisor and the ones who grade the games.  Officials in these games are going to make calls that will get them the best grades and in the long run keep thier jobs.

How I read the OU/ISU play, there is no advantage gained and there does not seem to be a big safety issue, I would pass.

[Hank]

My goal, call every "safety" foul I see.  If it's not a "safety" foul, call it only if it affects the play.

As for the play you mentioned.  Block in the Back is generally considerred to be a "safety" foul.

But the way you describe the play, I'm not certain this would qualify as what I consider to be a Block in the Back.  I've been told that a Block in the Back should result in the blockee hitting the ground face first.  Without actually seeing it though, I can't be certain.

[clearwall]

I'll try to be as brief with my initial question.

1) Do you call every penalty EVERY TIME you see it, or are there instances when you keep your flag in your pocket?

No, there's a concept called "point of attack" that would be applied for things like this. If it's a matter of player safety or sportsmanship, flag is thrown every time regardless(i.e. Taunting, clipping, block below the waist) but for things like holding and block in back where no one's safety is at issue, then there needs to be some discretion.

Here's what happened, a pass was tipped and intercepted by Oklahoma linebacker Travis Lewis, the play took place at approximately the 40-45 yard line of Oklahoma . Lewis had a convoy of blockers around him, as he reached the  20 yard line of Iowa State. Approximately 10-15 yards behind him Oklahoma defensive lineman Casey Walker and and Iowa State player were running side by side, as the Iowa State player began to run by Walker, Walker gave him a very slight push, it was on the back side of the ISU players shoulder pad. The ISU player was not knocked to the ground or knocked off of his course, as a matter of fact, it was hard to tell if Walker had actually even  made much contact at all. It had absolutely no baring on the outcome of the play.

Really hard to tell from just the description and no video. If what you describe is accurate, then I would tend to agree with you. However, without seeing it, i wouldnt criticize the official. If, in his judgement, the ISU player could have run that 20-25 yards and made a play, then it was a good call. Without seeing what he saw, I cant tell you either way.

I argued as an official you have to understand the intent of the rule in order to properly enforce it, I argued under the circumstances, I do not feel as if that call should have been made. Not just because it didn't effect the outcome of the play but rather taking the whole play in it's entirety into consideration, and the fact that very little contact was made.

That's why we get paid "the big bux" 

Am I all wet on this or not?

Not gonna touch that one...

[mark in ok]

The play in question can be seen here
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/957191-iowa-state-vs-oklahoma-video-highlights
at about the 1:53 mark.
After looking at it a few times, I wouldn't call that.

[WCFB]

The play in question can be seen here
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/957191-iowa-state-vs-oklahoma-video-highlights
at about the 1:53 mark.
After looking at it a few times, I wouldn't call that.

The IBB in question is around the 31-33 yard line when #12 lunges to try and block someone in the back but fails and face plants? The player he was trying to block never even slows down. Is that what we are looking at?

 

[Hank]

The IBB in question is around the 31-33 yard line when #12 lunges to try and block someone in the back but fails and face plants? The player he was trying to block never even slows down. Is that what we are looking at?

 

It that's it.  No Foul.  Nothing.

Hope they got the number wrong and it was somewhere else.

[clearwall]

After seeing the replay, I would say I wouldnt call that, but I'm not going to chastise the guy who did throw the flag. I can kind of see why he did. It appeared that #33 was moving at a pretty good clip to make a play on the runner and the BIB totally took him out of the play. Contact was definitely in the back, the only question here would be did it affect the play at all. For me, no.

[cccsdad]

The IBB in question is around the 31-33 yard line when #12 lunges to try and block someone in the back but fails and face plants? The player he was trying to block never even slows down. Is that what we are looking at?

 

That's the play, IMHO, no way that should be called.

[pgh guy]

My goal, call every "safety" foul I see.  If it's not a "safety" foul, call it only if it affects the play.

As for the play you mentioned.  Block in the Back is generally considerred to be a "safety" foul.

But the way you describe the play, I'm not certain this would qualify as what I consider to be a Block in the Back.  I've been told that a Block in the Back should result in the blockee hitting the ground face first.  Without actually seeing it though, I can't be certain.

An IBB is NOT a safety foul.  Safety fouls are all regarded as personal fouls and carry a 15 yard penalty.  IBB is no more a safety foul than holding.  I would say that both holding and IBBs are point of attack fouls, but not safety.

[clearwall]

Just kind of a deviation on this topic...does anyone else find it strange that it was announced "illegal block  in the back?" In what circumstance is Blocking in the back LEGAL?

[bama_stripes]

Just kind of a deviation on this topic...does anyone else find it strange that it was announced "illegal block  in the back?" In what circumstance is Blocking in the back LEGAL?

In the FBZ.

[El Macman]

In the FBZ.

What is the "FBZ?" No such animal (by that name) in NCAA. But, blocking in the back is OK within the blocking zone by linemen within that zone at the snap, until the ball leaves that zone. There are some other situations, but the point is that the description "...illegal block in the back..." is completely accurate, and actually more appropriate than just "...block in the back..."

[bama_stripes]

What is the "FBZ?" No such animal (by that name) in NCAA.

So, shoot me for not being completely conversant with NCAA nuances.  All's I know is -- they can legally do it.

[mccormicw]

My version of slo mo

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[Magician]

An IBB is NOT a safety foul.  Safety fouls are all regarded as personal fouls and carry a 15 yard penalty.  IBB is no more a safety foul than holding.  I would say that both holding and IBBs are point of attack fouls, but not safety.

You are correct but this is a common misconception among officials as well as coaches and players.  If I ever hear a IBB on the kicking team on a kick I wonder how they gained an advantage by the IBB.  The response is usually, "well he popped the guy in the back way away from the play."  Then we are going with a personal foul for unnecessary roughness if we do anything.  But that is not an IBB.