Controversial Onside Kick (video)

[mccormicw]

Picture 1 is of first blocking contact.  Picture 4 is when the ball first breaks the plane of the 50.

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[mccormicw]

How do I get pictures to insert at full size?

[mccormicw]

It looks like the player that ultimately touches the ball takes 3 or 4 steps after the blocks begin before he touches the ball at the 50.

[cwag]

  Now you know why I like the clip; some freedom of movement to visit with the little people.

You mean the pretty people!!

[Hank]

No doubt about it.  The blocks were early.  The touch is close and I believe a good call - LEGAL TOUCHING.  But the blocks should have drawn a flag IMO.

It's mildly interesting that the folks who are upset about this are complaining about the wrong thing.  Of course, they don't know the rules so it's not that surprising.

[Diablo]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Dallas-ISD-plans-UIL-protest-over-referees-call-135484058.html
1:17 mark. 

Great call by the official on the 50.  Ball was LEGALLY touched.

Agree, especially considering the H slid down the sideline and totaling obscured the S's view. 

[NVFOA_Ump]

No way Roy.  The ball bounced just on Team A's side of the 50 and at the time it is doing that, A is already blocking.

I surrender - after several more slow motion views.  The blocking does occur before the ball crosses, so the blocking is where the flag should be thrown.

[TXMike]

Agree, especially considering the H slid down the sideline and totaling obsured the S's view. 

From Fencewire:

[Hank]

Finally got the WFAA video to play.  From the other 2 videos it is clear that the blocks are early.  But this video shows something the others don't.

I could be wrong, but it LOOKS like the ball hits A57 at about the 1:27 mark of the video.  If it hits him, it caroms off the back of his leg.  What's surprising is that the ball continues to go forward and so, I could be wrong, it could just be an optical illusion.  But if it hits A57 at that point, not only should there be a penalty for an early block, there should ALSO be illegal touching.

If there's only an early block, then A rekicks after the penalty.  If there's illegal touching no rekick is needed, B's ball.  Look at it, let me know if you think it hits A57.

[BankerRef]

Doesn't hit A57. 

[TXMike]

Deja Vu all over again!!!  This clip came from Rom Gilbert's Video Clip Page this week

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF9Ompev7_0

[Hank]

So a 7 man crew in D2 semi-final misses the same call.  No uproar because B got the ball.

Any idea why they weren't in short kick formation?  Kicking team trailing badly in 4th quarter.

[zebra99]

this is probably the most missed call at all levels especially when the illegal block occurs more than 10 yards down field - usually because we are so concentrated on the ball, touching,  going 10 yards etc.  Very difficult to essentially abandoned the ball 8 yards down field to look at a kicker 11-12-13 yards potentially blocking.

in short kick formation we have it covered much better, but still quite difficult.

[TxSkyBolt]

this is probably the most missed call at all levels especially when the illegal block occurs more than 10 yards down field - usually because we are so concentrated on the ball, touching,  going 10 yards etc.  Very difficult to essentially abandoned the ball 8 yards down field to look at a kicker 11-12-13 yards potentially blocking.

in short kick formation we have it covered much better, but still quite difficult.

Great point.

[Diablo]

this is probably the most missed call at all levels especially when the illegal block occurs more than 10 yards down field - usually because we are so concentrated on the ball, touching,  going 10 yards etc.  Very difficult to essentially abandoned the ball 8 yards down field to look at a kicker 11-12-13 yards potentially blocking.

in short kick formation we have it covered much better, but still quite difficult.

If you don't mind, what are your conference's assignments/keys/responsibilities for each of the six in the box?

[Hank]

If you don't mind, what are your conference's assignments/keys/responsibilities for each of the six in the box?

Is there a standard for who watches what?  I've looked in the mechanics manual but can't find it.

Is it something that conferences decide how to do on their own?

If so, what does your conference do?  (anybody)

[TXMike]

TASO's 7 man mechanics manual says:

Responsibility for the blocking in  this situation goes  to the B, U, H and L but also assigns touching responsibility  to H and L ( as well as F and S).  I believe many crews in college have
adopted a mechanic wherein the off officials (cross field guys) concentrate
on the blocking and guys where ball is concentrate on touches.    Either way
you look at it, we should have had 2 - 4 guys looking at blocks but
apparently had 6 looking at the ball.  I know in my HS crew we have talked
about this very situation many times and we rely on cross field guys to pick
up blocks and let the other 2 focus on ball but help on blocks if they can.

[NVFOA_Ump]

So in 5-man mechanics early in a game, where we're not anticipating an onside kick, any suggestions on how to handle when we see the kick and only then realize what we've got?

[TxSkyBolt]

Off side official(s) should watch for the blocks.

[Hank]

So in 5-man mechanics early in a game, where we're not anticipating an onside kick, any suggestions on how to handle when we see the kick and only then realize what we've got?

I think someone suggested earlier, start by treating every kick as if it will be an onside kick.  Then adjust when it's deep.  The deep coverage is there in 5 man so no hurry to get back anyway.

I like how Mike's crew does it.  That's how we do it and it seems to work.  Only time we had to make the call, the ball stopped at 8 yards so it was easy to call the blocks illegal.

[Diablo]

So in 5-man mechanics early in a game, where we're not anticipating an onside kick, any suggestions on how to handle when we see the kick and only then realize what we've got?

As has been stated earlier, preparation is key.
Given what is at stake - possession of the ball with good field position - it is absolutely mandatory for up guys to prepare for EVERY free kick to be an onside kick.  That mindset should elicit mental imaging and review of responsibilities.  Focus on what you will have to see and expect.
   

[Diablo]

Off side official(s) should watch for the blocks.

Off side officials are usually more that 40 yds from the point of attack.  How effective are they at seeing who is initiating blocks and the location of the ball when alleged blocks occur?

[RedTD]

As has been stated earlier, preparation is key.
Given what is at stake - possession of the ball with good field position - it is absolutely mandatory for up guys to prepare for EVERY free kick to be an onside kick.  That mindset should elicit mental imaging and review of responsibilities.  Focus on what you will have to see and expect.
   

Excellent advice from Diablo!! We should be thinking on-side for every free kick. It starts with the allowance we give the kicking team on a restraining line. On-side = no tolerance. If we aren't mentally prepared for that when the ball is kicked it all goes "to hell in a hand basket" after that.

[El Macman]

Crew of 7, apparent onside kick formation:
S/F has WHERE - ball location relative to B's restraining line when first touched. Don't worry so much about who. Secondary on knowing if ball is kicked into the ground. Primary on knowing if B are offside (rare, but it has happened).
H/L has WHO - who first touches the ball. Don't worry so much about where. Also, primary on knowing if ball is kicked into the ground.
U/B - check for blocking by A before they are eligible to touch the ball. Don't worry about touching of ball. Also, primary on knowing if A are offiside.

When the dust settles, the S/F can report that the ball was first touched beyond/behind B's restraining line (he may not know who, but he knows where). The H/L can report that it was first touched by A/B (he may not know where, but he knows who). The U/B can offer input on any illegal blocking. With that info, the puzzle can be put together, and a proper picture formed. Nothing says that an individual officials have to have all the answers. Piece it together.

[Diablo]

Crew of 7, apparent onside kick formation:
S/F has WHERE - ball location relative to B's restraining line when first touched. Don't worry so much about who. Secondary on knowing if ball is kicked into the ground. Primary on knowing if B are offside (rare, but it has happened).
H/L has WHO - who first touches the ball. Don't worry so much about where. Also, primary on knowing if ball is kicked into the ground.
U/B - check for blocking by A before they are eligible to touch the ball. Don't worry about touching of ball. Also, primary on knowing if A are offiside.

When the dust settles, the S/F can report that the ball was first touched beyond/behind B's restraining line (he may not know who, but he knows where). The H/L can report that it was first touched by A/B (he may not know where, but he knows who). The U/B can offer input on any illegal blocking. With that info, the puzzle can be put together, and a proper picture formed. Nothing says that an individual officials have to have all the answers. Piece it together.

That's a good workable scheme to start with.  Can we refine it?

1.  How does the crew handle a potential KCI?

2.  How do the B/U know if the block is legal?  Don't they have to have knowledge of where the ball was at the time of the block or who touched it before the block?