Author Topic: No Huddle - What Do We Have?  (Read 5987 times)

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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« on: October 04, 2012, 07:39:05 AM »
Team A is running a no huddle, immediately back to the line hurry-up offense.  3rd down and 4 at the B-47.  Team A's 5 interior lineman are quickly in position all in three point stance with all 11 A players in position, as two replaced A WR's are still leaving the field from the B side of the ball downfield.

As soon as B notices the A substitutions B sends on a D-back sub, to match-up with one of the new A wide receivers.  Team A is already into the snap count with the A snapper, butt down and head up is gesturing and calling out blocking assignments realizes that B has 12 on the field as the B 12th man is still heading off.  He quickly starts repositioning back into snapping position and quick snaps the ball while still moving, all the while maintaining his 3-point stance.  We have multiple flags on the ground.  The U has been back in position since he placed the ball at the end of the previous play and has made no attempt to get back to the ball during the substitution process.

What do we have?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline TXMike

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 07:55:19 AM »
You have a need for umpire retraining.

Wave off the flags, explain to Coach A that the crew screwed up and you are doing a do over.  Also tell him your U will get his head out of his  a r s e  and prevent them (A ) from snapping in the future after a sub situation like this.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 08:03:22 AM by TXMike »

El Macman

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 08:00:52 AM »
You have a need for umpire retraining.

Wave off the flags, explain to Coach A that the crew screwed up and you are doing a do over.  Also tell him your U will get his head out of his idiot and prevent them (A ) from snapping in the futire after a sub situation like this.

And tell him that another such attempt to put B at a disadvantage will be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul and 15 yard penalty. First time is a do-over. Second time is a UNS.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 08:28:40 AM »
Rarely is the superior U aware of B subs behind him...he relies on R to signal.

Offline TXMike

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 08:43:08 AM »
The truly "superior umpire" (an oxymoron) WOULD see the Team A subs and get up to the ball to ANTICIPATE Team B subs.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 02:05:01 PM »
Rarely is the superior U aware of B subs behind him...he relies on R to signal.

So we see the problem.  U hustles, gets the ball, spots it and sees 11 in front of him after he's got it spotted.  He's back ready for the snap, and notes that the snap goes off with the snapper clearly still moving and drops a flag.  He's got an illegal snap since the center was still moving, the BJ has his flag for B having 12 on the field.  Can we just "wash" the play, warn A and have a "do-over" or should we call offsetting penalties, remind A of the substitution rules, and move on?

Also, doesn't the wing official on the team A side of the ball play a role in the sub issue here?
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

El Macman

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Re: No Huddle - What Do We Have?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 02:25:59 PM »
So we see the problem.  U hustles, gets the ball, spots it and sees 11 in front of him after he's got it spotted.  He's back ready for the snap, and notes that the snap goes off with the snapper clearly still moving and drops a flag.  He's got an illegal snap since the center was still moving, the BJ has his flag for B having 12 on the field.  Can we just "wash" the play, warn A and have a "do-over" or should we call offsetting penalties, remind A of the substitution rules, and move on?

Also, doesn't the wing official on the team A side of the ball play a role in the sub issue here?

You will not have offsetting. Its a question of timing. If you (the crew) determine that A had met their obligation to allow Team B to complete their match-up substitutions, and Team B was simply taking too long, thus they had 12 players on the field for more than the maximum 3 seconds before attempting to leave, then you have a dead-ball illegal substitution (before there could be a snap). So, the snapper's action is moot - nothing. Shut the play down and penalize B.

However, if you determine that B was reacting in a timely manner to A's substitutions, and the snapper was trying to put B at a disadvantage by snapping before B had completed their substitutions, then you would either have a false start for moving early (when he was moving to adjust his position to be able to snap the ball), or, if you deem the snapper's actions as being legal movement (not a false start), then you'd have a "do-over." Shut the play down, let everybody complete their subs, set the play clock to 25, warn Team A that the next such attempt to put the defense at a disadvantage would be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul, and declare the ball ready for play.

The opposing actions are mutually exclusive, i.e., if you have one as an infraction of the rules, then you can't have the other (by rule). So, no way to be offsetting.