Helmet to helmet

[ECILLJ]

I need to clarify my previous post about a blow to the helmet. The fans were yelling that the block was a blow to the helmet; the crew did not see a blow to the helmet in live action (wing was using peripheral vision). A viewing of the game tape may prove differently. The hit was at or above shoulder height. After reviewing the POE, I agree we should have flagged the play. These are the same types of penalties that are missed on the field at the NFL level. The league reviews and issues a fine to the player the following week. The main point is that our flag does not prevent the injury, but it does help to keep these type of plays from happening in the future. Regardless, the helmet contact penalties are difficult to officiate. We have always been taught if we are in doubt about a penalty we do not flag it.  It seems with helmet contact we now have an exception.

[bigjohn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFG6f88EQkE&feature=relmfu

[TampaSteve]

"big" makes a guest appearance...     

[ECILLJ]

Big John,

Thanks for the video. The video had a similar play to our play and I am now sure that we missed the call. The whole premise of whether the player being hit is upright or not and if the blocker or tackler is launching, gives us some excellent reference points when making the call.

[TampaSteve]

check me if i'm wrong, where is the word 'launch' in the FED rule book?   

[ECILLJ]

Tampa,

Launching is not in the rule book and that is stated in the video. It is simply an action to account for when we are making a split decision about a play that may meet the POE language. The POE from the rule book is again copied below. The whole premise of the video is helping with the difficulty in deciding what is and not is a penalty.

"Any initiation of contact with the helmet is illegal; therefore, there must be a focus on enforcing the existing rules. These rules include fouls such as butt blocking, face tackling and spearing (all of which are illegal helmet contact fouls) as well as other acts prohibited by the provisions regarding unnecessary roughness. These types of contact, such as blows to the head by the defender, initiating contact to the head, and helmet-to-helmet contact are all unnecessary to the playing of the game. When in doubt, contact to or with the helmet should be ruled a foul by game officials."

[Atlanta Blue]

Except that the video just showed that the very first phrase of the POE is not true.  There are times when the contact is initiated with the helmet, and it's not a foul.  Defender tries to go low to tackle a runner, he ducks his head to prepare for the contact, and that causes his helmet to contact the defender.

INTENTIONAL initiation of contact with the helmet is always a foul, now that I can buy.  But sometimes, helmets are going to collide, it's going to be the initial contact, and it's not a foul.  And that's why those that are fouls often aren't called.

[TampaSteve]

Tampa,

Launching is not in the rule book and that is stated in the video. It is simply an action to account for when we are making a split decision about a play that may meet the POE language. The POE from the rule book is again copied below. The whole premise of the video is helping with the difficulty in deciding what is and not is a penalty.

"Any initiation of contact with the helmet is illegal; therefore, there must be a focus on enforcing the existing rules. These rules include fouls such as butt blocking, face tackling and spearing (all of which are illegal helmet contact fouls) as well as other acts prohibited by the provisions regarding unnecessary roughness. These types of contact, such as blows to the head by the defender, initiating contact to the head, and helmet-to-helmet contact are all unnecessary to the playing of the game. When in doubt, contact to or with the helmet should be ruled a foul by game officials."

I understand this as I first solicited folks to see the video.
My intent was, perhaps poorly, was to point out that the act of launching is not defined with the FED.

[FBUmp]

The main point is that our flag does not prevent the injury, but it does help to keep these type of plays from happening in the future.

I disagree with this premise.  You can throw flags all night, every night and very, very few players are going to do anything differently.

[bigjohn]

[FBUmp]

TampaSteve, i think we found launch for you.

This is exactly what we've been told to call, target and launch.  So as I said earlier, there's plenty of NFHS documentation supporting how they want this called, even though the terminology isn't found in the rules.

[Curious]

"Targeting", "launching", "spearing", etc., etc.....

If a player uses his helmet to punish his opponent, it's a foul!  If it's severe enough, throw him out...

As I've said before, if you REALLY want to get the head out of football, go back to leather helmets and no facemask.  THAT will "make players do things differently".

[James]

Only the next generation of players.

I played football (at various levels) for 19 years, and then moved over to rugby.
I could not switch over to the style of tackling that rugby players are taught (head behind the body of the ball carrier).
On that note, I don't play any more - in my last 2 games I damaged my collarbone (not a break, but a bruise or something), and got kicked full on in my face (eye pushed back, swollen shut for 2 weeks, fortunately didn't break my cheekbone). I made hard tackles, but put my body in the wrong position for that sport.

I guess you could say you can't teach an old dog...

[Curious]

Only the next generation of players.

I played football (at various levels) for 19 years, and then moved over to rugby.
I could not switch over to the style of tackling that rugby players are taught (head behind the body of the ball carrier).

Smart coaches!!

On that note, I don't play any more - in my last 2 games I damaged my collarbone (not a break, but a bruise or something), and got kicked full on in my face (eye pushed back, swollen shut for 2 weeks, fortunately didn't break my cheekbone). I made hard tackles, but put my body in the wrong position for that sport.

Sorry about the injuries.  I don't know of a rougher sport (with no pads/helmets)...

I guess you could say you can't teach an old dog...

But "young dogs" can be taught/trained!

It really does get down to coaching and the players' false sense of invulnerability.