Author Topic: Question for your consideration  (Read 2431 times)

Offline AFSST

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Question for your consideration
« on: October 27, 2012, 09:14:16 AM »
Third and 10 from the R-30 with 12 seconds left in the game.  Team K lines up to attempt a game-winning field goal.  At the snap, Team K is flagged for an illegal formation.  The ball is blocked at the R-29 and K30 recovers on the R-32 with 3 seconds left on the clock.  What are the considerations for this play?  (Who will next snap the ball?  Yard line?  Clock start on the snap or RFP?  Communication with coaches?)
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Offline FBUmp

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 09:53:55 AM »
Third and 10 from the R-30 with 12 seconds left in the game.  Team K lines up to attempt a game-winning field goal.  At the snap, Team K is flagged for an illegal formation.  The ball is blocked at the R-29 and K30 recovers on the R-32 with 3 seconds left on the clock.  What are the considerations for this play?  (Who will next snap the ball?  Yard line?  Clock start on the snap or RFP?  Communication with coaches?)

K will next snap the ball.

If R accepts the IF penalty, which they undoubtedly will, it will be 3rd and 15 from the R-35.

Clock starts on the ready.

Since it was 3rd down and K recovered the ball behind the NZ, they retain possession.

Good play for discussion.

Offline AFSST

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2012, 10:45:56 AM »

If R accepts the IF penalty, which they undoubtedly will, it will be 3rd and 15 from the R-35.


Is it best for R to accept the foul?  Why or why not?
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Offline maven

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 11:47:19 AM »
Is it best for R to accept the foul?  Why or why not?

They shouldn't. If they accept the penalty, A will get an untimed down. Otherwise, time will likely expire before A can try again.
Quality is not an act, it is a habit.
Aristotle

Offline Curious

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 04:55:50 PM »
They shouldn't. If they accept the penalty, A will get an untimed down. Otherwise, time will likely expire before A can try again.

Not necessarily, Maven.  A well-coached team will know when the clock will start; and will have the snap ready to go when the RFP is given.  A lot can happen in 3 seconds; and even if there is an untimed down, the extra five yards could be significant.  You gotta know your opponent too....

Offline FBUmp

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 05:55:32 PM »
Is it best for R to accept the foul?  Why or why not?

I couldn't care less.  That's their concern, not mine.  I'm a football official, not a coach.  ;D

Offline AFSST

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 07:52:54 PM »
I couldn't care less.  That's their concern, not mine.  I'm a football official, not a coach.  ;D

I see the grin, but I'm wondering if you're serious...part of what we do is preventive officiating.  Giving coaches options is our concern.
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Offline FBUmp

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 11:02:19 PM »
Explaining penalty options is NOT preventive officiating.  It's simply a requirement of our position.  We explain the options and the consequences.  Many times, the correct option is obvious.  Other times, there can be good reasons for either of two options.  It's up to the coach to make that decision, not me.

But I'll play along.

Obviously in this play, if R accepts the penalty, we will have an untimed down if the clock expires prior to the next snap.  However, that does not mean that's the best option for R, nor do I have any business trying to offer it as the best thing for Coach R to do.  Why?

1- For all I know, K may still have a timeout.  You didn't address this possibility in the OP.

2- As Curious stated, K may still be able to get the kick off. 5 yards could make all the difference in the world.

So while I will offer all the information I can and answer any questions that are asked,...

I couldn't care less.  That's their concern, not mine.  I'm a football official, not a coach.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2012, 05:31:54 AM »
Simply put, it's our job to give them their options, it's their job to figure out which option to select.

Offline Livin' in the pit

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2012, 10:12:51 AM »
Simply put, it's our job to give them their options, it's their job to figure out which option to select.

We're just the traffic cops. Best to leave the heavy thinking to the professionals.

Holy. I wrote that without cracking a smile.

Offline AFSST

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2012, 01:32:55 PM »
Simply put, it's our job to give them their options, it's their job to figure out which option to select.

Absolutely agree...my point is we include all pertinent information in the options.  "Coach, you can decline the penalty, the clock will start on my ready, and if the game clock hits zero, the game is over; or you can accept the penalty, the clock will start on my ready, and if the game clock hits zero, we'll have an untimed down."

Giving the coach that info will allow him to make the best informed decision.
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Offline FBUmp

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 05:20:10 PM »
Absolutely agree...my point is we include all pertinent information in the options. 

But that's not what you asked, not what I replied to nor what you challenged me on.

"Is it best for R to accept the foul?"

 ;)

Offline VALJ

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Re: Question for your consideration
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 09:48:36 AM »
Depends on whether AB is coaching the kicker or not.  If so, make the kid go back five yards.