Clock Question

[NCVAReferee]

A 4-10 @ B-45.  A20-B23.  0:10 remain in 2nd Quarter.

A punts to B, who completes a fair catch with 0:04 remaining in the half at the B-10.  At the snap, A had 5 players in the backfield.

B choses to accept the penalty, making the following down A 4-15 @ 50.  Clock on the snap?

[AFSST]

Yes clock starts on the snap, Rule 3-4-3j

[NCVAReferee]

Suppose no fair catch, but the punt is fielded by B and he is downed after a 10 yard return?

[Atlanta Blue]

Suppose no fair catch, but the punt is fielded by B and he is downed after a 10 yard return?

Depends.  Was he downed inbounds or out?

Assuming inbounds, the clock would start on the ready.  But if time expires before the snap, you're still going to have an untimed down, due to the accepted penalty on the last play of the quarter.

[NCVAReferee]

How does 3-4-2(b)(3) play into this?  Seems to me the clock stopped because B was in possession at the end of the down.  Thus clock should go on the snap.  Just as if a TD was scored and pulled back because of penalty.

Clarify what rule supports if B downed inbounds after a punt return in your example.

[AFSST]

Rule 3-4-3c.  The clock shall start with the snap...if the clock was stopped because either team is a awarded a new series following a legal kick.

Neither K nor R is awarded a new series following the legal kick.  When R is downed inbounds, it did not cause the clock to be stopped.  The foul caused the clock to be stopped.

[NCVAReferee]

What stops the clock if there is no penalty?  B in possession at the end of the down, right?  Same as if B intercepts a pass.  Same as if B recovers a fumble.  If there is an accepted foul in these cases, the clock starts on the snap after enforcement.

I don't interpret this as the foul stopping the clock.  The clock stopped because B is in possession at the end of the play.  3-4-3 ha nothing to do here.  In this case 3-4-2(b)(3) is applicable

[Atlanta Blue]

What stops the clock if there is no penalty?  B in possession at the end of the down, right?  Same as if B intercepts a pass.  Same as if B recovers a fumble.  If there is an accepted foul in these cases, the clock starts on the snap after enforcement.

I don't interpret this as the foul stopping the clock.  The clock stopped because B is in possession at the end of the play.  3-4-3 ha nothing to do here.  In this case 3-4-2(b)(3) is applicable

It's not B/R's POSSESSION that stops the clock, it's B/R being awarded a new series that stops the clock in all of those cases.  Think of the reason behind the rule: the clock is stopped because the teams need to switch from offense to defense.  But if B/R is tackled inbounds after a punt that is called back (or a fumble or an interception), none of those things are happening.  The teams aren't changing.

Yes, the clock stopped because B/R was in possession.  But that isn't a MAJOR clock stopper (the things in 3-4-3).  Had the foul not happened, B/R would have been given a new series, and THAT is a major clock stopper.  But they weren't awarded a new series, therefore, the clock will start on the RFP.

[Roscoe]

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't it always be clock start on the snap since the clock is dead at the end of the kick? The penalty isn't stopping the clock, the end of the kick is.

[maven]

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't it always be clock start on the snap since the clock is dead at the end of the kick? The penalty isn't stopping the clock, the end of the kick is.

The end of the kick is not a major clock stopper (3-4-3). Either team receiving a new series after a legal kick is.

[NCVAReferee]

Does anyone have an interpretation of 3-4-2(b)(3) and how it may or may not relate to this situation?

[NCVAReferee]

I get it now.  Thanks for feedback.

[Curious]

Does anyone have an interpretation of 3-4-2(b)(3) and how it may or may not relate to this situation?

See Case Book play 3.4.3F...

"K11 punts on 4th down and 10.  R1 catches the kick after making a legal fair catch signal.  PRIOR TO THE SNAP, K2 was illegally in motion (my edit: substitute illegal formation). R accepts the penalty for illegal motion. RULING: After enforcement, the clock shall start on the snap as both the down ending and clock stopping were due to the fair catch".

[bossman72]

What stops the clock if there is no penalty?  B in possession at the end of the down, right?  Same as if B intercepts a pass.  Same as if B recovers a fumble.  If there is an accepted foul in these cases, the clock starts on the snap after enforcement.

I don't interpret this as the foul stopping the clock.  The clock stopped because B is in possession at the end of the play.  3-4-3 ha nothing to do here.  In this case 3-4-2(b)(3) is applicable

See rule 3-5-7c........ a change of possession is an official's time out.

3-4-3b - The awarding of a new series to B or R (meaning they will next snap the ball) causes it to go on the snap

[Central PA Ref]

Some of you guys are over thinking this. When remembering what to do with the clock all you have to do is ask yourself this question: If there was no foul when would the clock start?

In this case IF there was no penalty there would be a new series awarded after a legal kick. That would demand the clock starting on the snap.

In this play fair catch or R downed in bounds..following enforcement the CLOCK STARTS ON THE SNAP.

[Ump33]

A 4-10 @ B-45.  A20-B23.  0:10 remain in 2nd Quarter.

A punts to B, who completes a fair catch with 0:04 remaining in the half at the B-10.  At the snap, A had 5 players in the backfield.

B choses to accept the penalty, making the following down A 4-15 @ 50.  Clock on the snap?

Completely read over the fair catch part of the OP ... clock starts on the snap because of the fair catch

[Atlanta Blue]

Some of you guys are over thinking this. When remembering what to do with the clock all you have to do is ask yourself this question: If there was no foul when would the clock start?

The first sentence is correct, the second is not.

It's not, "If there was no foul when would the clock start? "

It's "What caused the clock to stop?", a subtle but important difference.  In the case of B being tackled inbounds, there was no major clock stopper.  It's not B being tackled that would cause the clock to start on the snap, it's B getting a new series that would do so.  B isn't getting a new series, so it's just a player being tackled inbounds.

Clock on the RFP.

[AFSST]

Guys...look in your rule book.   Curious is correct.  Clock starts on the snap because of R's fair catch.  Just like moths flying into a light, we MUST follow the rules!!

[Curious]

Guys...look in your rule book.   Curious is correct.  Clock starts on the snap because of R's fair catch.  Just like moths flying into a light, we MUST follow the rules!!

Ah.........my favorite three words

[vplacek228@comcast.net]

Some of you guys are over thinking this. When remembering what to do with the clock all you have to do is ask yourself this question: If there was no foul when would the clock start?

In this case IF there was no penalty there would be a new series awarded after a legal kick. That would demand the clock starting on the snap.

In this play fair catch or R downed in bounds..following enforcement the CLOCK STARTS ON THE SNAP.

Not if downed in bounds as there was no new series awarded.   If downed in bounds clock starts on ready.

[AFSST]

I think we are confusing ourselves because multiple plays have been introduced in this thread, and we are responding (correctly) to a play, but then someone else thinks we're responding (incorrectly) to another play they were reading.

Rule 3, Section 4, Art 3, a-j give us "major" clock stoppers.

Kid fair catches the ball and we have illegal formation and K replays 4th down?  Clock on the snap (3-4-3j)

Kid does not fair catch and runs out of bounds and we have illegal formation and K replays 4th down?  Clock on the snap (3-4-3a)

Kid does not fair catch and is tackled inbounds and we have illegal formation and K replays 4th down?  Clock starts on the RFP

[Central PA Ref]

All,

I take great pride in my knowledge of the rules and I normally do not respond on here without researching my answers. In this instance I was so sure I was correct I broke that rule.

I stand corrected... from what I have read the clock indeed starts in the RFP if the returner was tackled in bounds and 4th down is replayed.

I apologize..