Case Play Thoughts

[ck4597]

Case Play for pre-game meeting has the folowing question...

A 2&9 at B30. B33 blocks A82 below the waist at the B22 to prevent him for running his pass route. QB A11 has to scramble and is tackled at the B33 by B55. After the ball is dead B55 taunts A11 with a throat slash gesture and A11 retaliates by slugging B55 with his closed fist.

The discussion centered around wether the BBW on B33 is enforced from end of run or declined by A taking results of play...obviously the two dead balls are enforced in order of occurrence

[TampaSteve]

Assume A82 is outside FBZ, yes? A will accept the BBW.  Enforce from prev spot.  Put it on the 11...

Then go half the dist to the 5.5 for B's actions.
Then to the 20.5 for A's actions.
1/10 for A.

[maven]

The live-ball BBW is a foul by the defense beyond the basic spot, which for this running play is the end of the run. By ABO, it will be enforced from the basic spot. 15 yards puts the ball at the B18, which results in a new series for A.

The dead-ball fouls are enforced in order. B's UNS is enforced half the distance, to the B9. A's DB PF is then enforced 15 yards to the B24, where it will be A 1/10.

If B55 has a prior UNS in the game, then he has ejected himself. If A11's foul is flagrant or fighting, then he has ejected himself.

I doubt that A will decline the penalty. Doing so would leave them 1/10 @ B33 instead of 1/10 @ B24.

Clock on the ready.

[TampaSteve]

The live-ball BBW is a foul by the defense beyond the basic spot, which for this running play is the end of the run. By ABO, it will be enforced from the basic spot. 15 yards puts the ball at the B18, which results in a new series for A.

The dead-ball fouls are enforced in order. B's UNS is enforced half the distance, to the B9. A's DB PF is then enforced 15 yards to the B24, where it will be A 1/10.

If B55 has a prior UNS in the game, then he has ejected himself. If A11's foul is flagrant or fighting, then he has ejected himself.

I doubt that A will decline the penalty. Doing so would leave them 1/10 @ B33 instead of 1/10 @ B24.

Clock on the ready.

Fighting is always eject-able.
& I didnt read the whole play. 
Run ended behind LOS.  It wasnt loose ball, so basic spot, enforce from end of run...

[maven]

Fighting is always eject-able.

No doubt. But the covering official will need to rule on whether A11's act constitutes fighting. "Slugging with a closed fist" sounds like it, but I chose to leave the question open and provide both penalties.

[ck4597]

I'm struggling with why it's 1st and 10?

[HLinNC]

15 yards puts the ball at the B18, which results in a new series for A.

The LTG was reached as a result of the live ball foul.  The chains will be reset after the dead ball fouls are assessed.

[maven]

I'm struggling with why it's 1st and 10?

As HLinNC points out, if A accepts the BBW penalty, that will put them beyond the LTG and earn them a new series. The chains would set after all DB penalties are enforced.

If A declines the BBW penalty, the 15 yard penalty for B's UNS from the dead ball spot will STILL put them beyond the LTG (at the B18). That earns them a new series again. Then the penalty for A's DB PF sets them back to the B33, where the chains would be set, 1/10.

So it will be 1/10 either way, but the spot will be better if they accept the BBW penalty.

[Curious]

The live-ball BBW is a foul by the defense beyond the basic spot, which for this running play is the end of the run. By ABO, it will be enforced from the basic spot. 15 yards puts the ball at the B18, which results in a new series for A.

Hey "Mav"; does it really matter where B's live ball foul occurs.....?

[fudilligas]

The live-ball BBW is a foul by the defense beyond the basic spot, which for this running play is the end of the run. By ABO, it will be enforced from the basic spot. 15 yards puts the ball at the B18, which results in a new series for A.

Why is ABO even an option.  Aren't all running play fouls by the defense enforced from the end of run

[Curious]

Why is ABO even an option.  Aren't all running play fouls by the defense enforced from the end of run

All-but-one is always a consideration when fouls occur; but you're correct regarding fouls by B during running plays (except for, maybe, a substitution foul).  That's why I asked "Maven" my tongue-in-cheek question just above.....to which he never responded....  

[maven]

Why is ABO even an option.  Aren't all running play fouls by the defense enforced from the end of run

I think you mean that the basic spot for running plays is the end of the run, and that all live-ball fouls by the defense are enforced from the basic spot.

And that's an application of ABO.

It has always puzzled me when people think "All-but-one" applies only to the "one" and not to the "all."