Author Topic: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.  (Read 32953 times)

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Offline HLinNC

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Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 12:50:00 PM »
Survey expires January 4 and there are sure a lot of additional items that could be included!
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline FBUmp

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 01:23:14 PM »
Very easy to use format.  I hope others will complete the survey.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 10:57:40 AM »
Any idea how one would request consideration for a rule modification proposal?

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 11:03:27 AM »
Any idea how one would request consideration for a rule modification proposal?

You have to submit it to your state office.  They then submit it to the national office.  The national office will only accept proposals from the state rep, not from individuals.  All proposed changes must be into the national office by Nov 1, so the state deadline is earlier than that (ours is Sep 30).  You must submit the new rule as it would be written (not just an idea), along with an explanation of why it should be changed, as well as any other rules than might be affected by the change.

Offline NorCalMike

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 01:13:17 AM »
You have to submit it to your state office.  They then submit it to the national office.  The national office will only accept proposals from the state rep, not from individuals.  All proposed changes must be into the national office by Nov 1, so the state deadline is earlier than that (ours is Sep 30).  You must submit the new rule as it would be written (not just an idea), along with an explanation of why it should be changed, as well as any other rules than might be affected by the change.
Its too bad they would let us add some comments to the end of the survey. I would like to see NFHS change the taunting rule to something NCAA making it a live ball foul if it happens during the live ball period. We still have an occasional problem child round here.

maven

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 08:31:31 AM »
Its too bad they would let us add some comments to the end of the survey.

There's a reason for that. They want all suggestions vetted by state associations (and state associations want that, too).

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 09:06:51 AM »
There's a reason for that. They want all suggestions vetted by state associations (and state associations want that, too).
Well, too bad too that the State (to my knowledge) does not solicit rule amendment suggestions to vet.

maven

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 09:52:41 AM »
Well, too bad too that the State (to my knowledge) does not solicit rule amendment suggestions to vet.

Sure they do. Just not from officials. ;)

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 09:58:18 AM »
Sure they do. Just not from officials. ;)
Ah....

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 07:06:40 PM »
They don't solicit changes from coaches either.  They will read something if we send it, but they don't come asking our opinion either.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 07:48:58 AM »
So what if we, as a group BOTH officials & coaches from many States, draft a pretty letter and remit a list of requested rules changes? - that would seem to be rather powerful than individuals.
Of course, to whom would this be remitted?

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 08:15:23 AM »
So what if we, as a group BOTH officials & coaches from many States, draft a pretty letter and remit a list of requested rules changes? - that would seem to be rather powerful than individuals.
Of course, to whom would this be remitted?

To each of our state offices.  Let them know to which states it is being submitted.  The rules committee members know each other and talk.  If the head of the Georgia HSA gets the same letter as the Florida HSA, and each knows the other got it, it might spark some discussion between them.

maven

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 08:16:33 AM »
Grass roots! Love it! Might even work! :)

FredFan7

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2012, 04:49:39 PM »
Nothing too earth shaking in this year's survey.  I think NFHS has a pretty good rules code at this time and I don't think they need to reinvent the wheel every year.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2012, 08:29:36 PM »
Nothing too earth shaking in this year's survey.  I think NFHS has a pretty good rules code at this time and I don't think they need to reinvent the wheel every year.
Word had it removing LOD for OPI came within 1 vote of passing last year, yet nary a word about it on this year's survey.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 07:44:17 AM »
In as far as a notion to have an en masse rules amendment request remitted at once from multiple officials & coaches from multiple states: to not overwhelm those rules folks, what would be +/-3 to change?

For me, based on things round these parts:
First:
Change Rule 3-4 to more closely resemble NCAA/NFL for OOB clock stoppages. - in other words, for OOB plays, once the ball is set, run the clock.

Rationale: As HS coaches, in attempt to emulate and/or evolve the HS game to NCAA/NFL games, are employing more and more passing offenses.  Unfortunately, coaches are not always realistic in succeeding at this new plan of attack.  Primarily, this is due to the lack of having the developed athletes to execute such attack.  As one can guess, this results in many incomplete passes which stops the game clock until the following snap.
(not a knock on coaches but we've all seen those who think Oregon is recruiting the next offensive coord)

Furthermore, as HS players emulate NCAA/NFL players, HS players are simply running out of bounds as they near the sideline.  While NCAA/NFL re-starts the clock (for the most part) on OOB plays, HS has no such consideration.

This all adds up to HS games, of 48min length, taking the same length of time (3 hours or more) that of NCAA/NFL which are 60min length AND have commercial breaks to boot.

Second:
(personally, I like the FL mercy rule – except for the fact it’s not mandatory prior to the 4th q.  Plus some states don’t even have a mercy rule )

A uniform Mercy Rule that is not at the option of a coach for whether or not to invoke, AND once “mercy” status is met it will continue for the remainder of the contest – regardless whether the point differential changes.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 09:25:16 AM »
Amen, TS
 :bOW

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 10:51:21 AM »
Absolutely not!  With only 48 minutes of game time, there is no need to rewind the clock on an OOB play.  As it is now, even running a modified spread offense and thowing 15-20 times per game, we did not have a game go more than 2:30 all year, and remember, we have 23 minute halftimes.  Most of our games were 2:15 or less.

You will never get coaches to agree to this one.

I'm fine with your universal mercy rule, but I like ours even better - it starts at 30 points instead of 35, is mandatory in the 4th quarter (I'm fine with making it mandatory in the whole second half), and once implemented, never goes back.  The thing I don't like about ours is that it only starts at the beginning of a quarter.  If the 30 point differential doesn't come until after the start of the 4th quarter, you don't get a running clock.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 11:52:21 AM »
Absolutely not!  With only 48 minutes of game time, there is no need to rewind the clock on an OOB play.  As it is now, even running a modified spread offense and thowing 15-20 times per game, we did not have a game go more than 2:30 all year, and remember, we have 23 minute halftimes.  Most of our games were 2:15 or less.

You will never get coaches to agree to this one.
Certainly not to be combative. - Heck Atl has as much if not more rules knowledge than many here.
(plus there's better, more advanced HS football in FL anyway, right?)   ;)  pun 
While I see a game here/there of 2:30, it's 1 or 2 a year - havent seen 2:15 in several yrs.  Again, round these parts, we're looking @3:00 games. - and it's more like 20+ passes a game per team with about 30% completion success (round these parts).
Heck, how bout we (not just Atl) look @box scores of our State's Finals games.  If the elapsed time of game is noted.  For FL, we have 4 this week & 4 next wk.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:27:37 PM by TampaSteve »

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 12:42:45 PM »
OK, so I have some free time @work today.   ;)
Went back to 2001 - present.  Looked @each state final game for every class.  Took out each game where there was an OT or a mercy rule.
In 2001 avg game was 2:30
By 2006 avg game was 2:40
In 2010 & 2011 avg game was 2:45
Again these are well-played/coached Finals games.  Not the regular season weekly grind.
And - it's opinions drawn from games round these parts.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:51:17 PM by TampaSteve »

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 01:15:19 PM »
OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games.  But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.

Also, how long are your halftimes?  Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period.  I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time.  It does NOTHING to prevent injuries.  If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?

And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!

Offline Rulesman

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 01:19:49 PM »
OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games.  But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.

Also, how long are your halftimes?  Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period.  I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time.  It does NOTHING to prevent injuries.  If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?

And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!
I can't remember the last time I saw a high school game anywhere near 2 hours. My last one was 2:52.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 01:34:11 PM »
OK, so time has increased in your relatively small sample of games.  But none of those come close to the 3:00 you said you are seeing regularly.

Also, how long are your halftimes?  Ours are 20 minutes, plus the three minute mandatory warm up period.  I would have no problem dropping half time to 15 minutes, or eliminating the 3 minute mandatory warm up period, which is a complete waste of time.  It does NOTHING to prevent injuries.  If 3 minutes is mandatory at halftime, why is a pregame warmup mandatory?

And you aren't even required to warmup during that 3 minute period, you are just required to be there for it!
Atl: for  3hr games - it's just what I'm seeing round here.  Maybe my 'games too long' issue is me being jaded with my own games I'm working being long games every week...
FL halftimes are 17 + 3 warm up.
I would support 15:00 halftime.
Hey - dont forget our FL H2O breaks too for every quarter all season long.

maven

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Re: NFHS Fall sports questionnaire up on the website.
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 01:38:36 PM »
All this talk of 15-minute halftimes is going to get us in trouble with the BAND PEOPLE!