Mechanic/Philosophy Questions

[BuckTrump]

I think we have all had a taste of this situation at some point during our time on the field........

.........a coach is upset, very upset.  Be is justified anger or not, he is really having his way with the officials.  He eventually crosses the line (where ever you draw your line) and a UC flag is thrown.  This quiets him for a moment but he gets right back into it or, even better yet, the flag just ignited the fire and the coach gets even more upset.

Before getting to the question, it is worth pointing out that no official looks to toss a coach out of the game (or a player for that matter).  I am a huge proponent of preventative officiating.   I am also the type of official that uses stupid little sayings to help teach.  I do not need to be the center of attention out there; I actually prefer to be just the opposite.......unknown and unrecognized. 

My philosophy in a situation like this is to get the game started again as quick as possible and then to "take a couple plays off".  What I mean by that is simple;  I need to shift his focus to football and his team once again.  By starting the game you are forcing him to stop complaining and coach again.  However, "taking a couple plays off" means that you simply allow him to have his say and move on.  99% of all coaches know that their complaints are not going to change a call.  They want to vent, be heard and convince themselves that they are in charge.  None of these things I have a problem with a coach wanting!  I have often times taken a couple plays off, allowed the coaches to have their say and have pocketed my flag............this side of physical contact or behaviors well over the line of course!  I have found that this works for me.  It prevents another flag, an ejection of a coach and a messy look to the flow of the game. 

However, I think it takes a certain amount of discipline by the official.  I have seen some officials throw a justified UC flag and then a coach tells that the the flag was "bogus" so they turn a throw another one because the official has gotten caught up in the emotion of the situation.  This can never happen.  However, I would suggest that you take it to the other extreme and be incredibly calm during a situation like this.  It pays off and gives a very professional look. 

Thoughts?

[TampaSteve]

Let's face it, coaching is their job & it's our hobby.
That being said, in my corporate job, I cannot rant/rave/et al. - and I sure cannot 'show anyone up' too.

So just because a guy has a coaching whistle does not grant him any right to act out of line.

I'm the calmest guy in the world.  I don't scream/yell back at any coach. - heck, they are generally ignored & if it may start to get nasty, I'll step out to near the bottom of the numbers.
 
BUT it does not seem all too professional-looking to allow for someone to cross a line (and act unprofessional) without paying any consequences.

[Curious]

"I am also the type of official that uses stupid little sayings to help teach." 

I assume you mean you're NOT that type of official...

My philosophy in a situation like this is to get the game started again as quick as possible and then to "take a couple plays off".  What I mean by that is simple;  I need to shift his focus to football and his team once again.  By starting the game you are forcing him to stop complaining and coach again.  However, "taking a couple plays off" means that you simply allow him to have his say and move on.  99% of all coaches know that their complaints are not going to change a call.  They want to vent, be heard and convince themselves that they are in charge.  None of these things I have a problem with a coach wanting!  I have often times taken a couple plays off, allowed the coaches to have their say and have pocketed my flag............this side of physical contact or behaviors well over the line of course!  I have found that this works for me.  It prevents another flag, an ejection of a coach and a messy look to the flow of the game.

All good stuff.  "You can't misquote silence"....

However, I think it takes a certain amount of discipline by the official.  I have seen some officials throw a justified UC flag and then a coach tells that the the flag was "bogus" so they turn a throw another one because the official has gotten caught up in the emotion of the situation.

This (discipline) usually comes from "experience".   

This can never happen. 

Not sure I would agree with "never"; but he REALLY should be perceived to have dug himself into an inextricable hole.

It pays off and gives a very professional look. 

Always!

[ECILLJ]

With age and experience, I know I manage my sideline much differently than when I was younger. It helps that most of the coaches are now younger than me and with experience they know who I am. With that being said, I do allow them to vent more (without crossing the line) than I may have when I was younger. I have learned that silence is often the best response or responding with something as subtle as "okay, I hear you coach." Trouble usually happens when you try to explain yourself or worse, try to explain the action of another referee. When I know I have a venting coach behind me I will stay out near the bottom of the number as long as possible during a dead ball. It also helps as we get older that our hearing is not as good as it was (to many whistles in our ears) and sometimes we really didn't hear what they said.

[Rulesman]

With age and experience, I know I manage my sideline much differently than when I was younger. It helps that most of the coaches are now younger than me and with experience they know who I am. With that being said, I do allow them to vent more (without crossing the line) than I may have when I was younger. I have learned that silence is often the best response or responding with something as subtle as "okay, I hear you coach." Trouble usually happens when you try to explain yourself or worse, try to explain the action of another referee. When I know I have a venting coach behind me I will stay out near the bottom of the number as long as possible during a dead ball. It also helps as we get older that our hearing is not as good as it was (to many whistles in our ears) and sometimes we really didn't hear what they said.

Excellent advice. If I didn't know better, I'd swear I wrote that piece.

[maven]

With age and experience, I know I manage my sideline much differently than when I was younger. It helps that most of the coaches are now younger than me and with experience they know who I am. With that being said, I do allow them to vent more (without crossing the line) than I may have when I was younger. I have learned that silence is often the best response or responding with something as subtle as "okay, I hear you coach." Trouble usually happens when you try to explain yourself or worse, try to explain the action of another referee. When I know I have a venting coach behind me I will stay out near the bottom of the number as long as possible during a dead ball. It also helps as we get older that our hearing is not as good as it was (to many whistles in our ears) and sometimes we really didn't hear what they said.

Agree, this is very good. I recommend to my wings that they ignore statements, answer questions about their own calls, and refer questions about other issues to me. "We'll watch for that, coach" is almost always useful.

[Atlanta Blue]

My officaiting experience is in baseball, but I have changed over the years as well.  When I was young and stupid, I tossed coaches left and right, for the slightest infraction.  I had a chip on my shoulder, and was out to prove who was in charge.

Now that I'm old (and still stupid), I ignore the vast majority of what they say.  I haven't tossed a coach in years.  Part of it is that I don't think I have to prove who is in charge any more.  Part of it is I am more respected now that I have been around for years.  But a big part of it is I just don't care what they say.  They're not hollering at me, they are hollering at whoever is the umpire that day.

If he denigrates the other team or says something profane that the world can hear, they he has to go.  If I do reach my limit, a simple, "Coach, that's enough" usually puts an end to it.  In bad cases, I have been known to call time, pull out the roster card, and call him out as if there is a lineup issue.  While we are together and no one else can hear, I let him know he has reached his limit, and I will not listen to another word.  That is a one way conversation, and no one in the park knows I just laid down the law, they think we were discussing the card in my hand.  He saves face, I make my point, and we usually finish without another problem.

[TampaSteve]

My officaiting experience is in baseball, but I have changed over the years as well.  When I was young and stupid, I tossed coaches left and right, for the slightest infraction.  I had a chip on my shoulder, and was out to prove who was in charge.

Now that I'm old (and still stupid), I ignore the vast majority of what they say.  I haven't tossed a coach in years.  Part of it is that I don't think I have to prove who is in charge any more.  Part of it is I am more respected now that I have been around for years.  But a big part of it is I just don't care what they say.  They're not hollering at me, they are hollering at whoever is the umpire that day.

If he denigrates the other team or says something profane that the world can hear, they he has to go.  If I do reach my limit, a simple, "Coach, that's enough" usually puts an end to it.  In bad cases, I have been known to call time, pull out the roster card, and call him out as if there is a lineup issue.  While we are together and no one else can hear, I let him know he has reached his limit, and I will not listen to another word.  That is a one way conversation, and no one in the park knows I just laid down the law, they think we were discussing the card in my hand.  He saves face, I make my point, and we usually finish without another problem.

..& you leave your mask on too, yes?
A friend works D-II baseball here. 
His trick when a pitcher is really being a crybaby is call time, brush off the plate & while brushing to encourage the catcher to go speak to his pitcher because he is starting to toe the line...etc.."

[Atlanta Blue]

..& you leave your mask on too, yes?

I've heard that, but typically I don't, I just don't feel comfortable talking to a coach with a mask on, even if it's dressing down.  But i will face toward the field and make him fence.

A friend works D-II baseball here. 
His trick when a pitcher is really being a crybaby is call time, brush off the plate & while brushing to encourage the catcher to go speak to his pitcher because he is starting to toe the line...etc.."

Don't even have to brush off the plate, just lean into the catcher's ear and tell him.

I've been known to tell a catcher, "You had better go calm him down, because if I do it, one of us won't see the end of the game."  Catchers get it.

[bama_stripes]

He saves face, I make my point, and we usually finish without another problem.

I used to do this too, until I quit worrying about letting a verbal abuser "save face".

He wants to show me up?  Fine -- he get the public spanking he deserves.

If he's got enough sense to come to me between innings, then we pull the "lineup card" song-and-dance and go about our business.

[Atlanta Blue]

I used to do this too, until I quit worrying about letting a verbal abuser "save face".

He wants to show me up?  Fine -- he get the public spanking he deserves.

The problem with that is that it often escalates the situation.  I used to not care, but I have found that if I can defuse it, the game typically runs smoother.

[AlUpstateNY]

The problem with that is that it often escalates the situation.  I used to not care, but I have found that if I can defuse it, the game typically runs smoother.

Possessing the skill to consistently defuse "situations" with "verbal abusers" without escalating matters may be the most valuable of the skills we need to master.

[Sumstine]

Let's face it, coaching is their job & it's our hobby.

Normally I agree with you but not in this case.

Many coaches are not coaching for a living and we are out there to do a job and not build a train set. The amount of pay does not determine the amount of commitment on game day. I know it is just semantics and you put more into this avocation than most people put into their hobbies but we all need to understand that our job on the field has an impact on fans, players, coaches, other officials and the integrity of the game.

Working with the coaches is part of our necessary skill set and we all need to make sure we are able to communicate with the coaches and players when emotions are high.

[bama_stripes]

The problem with that is that it often escalates the situation.  I used to not care, but I have found that if I can defuse it, the game typically runs smoother.

Agree, as long as he's doing it the "right" way.  A coach who chirps from the dugout, or has something to say as he passes between innings gets my standard "I hear you" - (put up stop sign) - "Knock it off" progression.

OTOH, if he continually hollers at me from the 3rd base coaching box, or approaches the plate waving his arms, he gets spanked.

[BuckTrump]

Agree, as long as he's doing it the "right" way.  A coach who chirps from the dugout, or has something to say as he passes between innings gets my standard "I hear you" - (put up stop sign) - "Knock it off" progression.

OTOH, if he continually hollers at me from the 3rd base coaching box, or approaches the plate waving his arms, he gets spanked.

And this was point all along..................I have no problem in allowing a coach to have his say.........crossing the line, however, is another story.

Coaches simply want to feel empowered and I have no problem in affording them that opportunity.  This is the art of officiating as opposed to the science of officiating.

[hoochycoochy]

I couldn't give a hoot less what a coach says.  They're just words.  Let him talk.  When it gets personal (race, sex, color, creed personal) or questions my integrity ("you screwed us last year and you're screwing us again") then ding him.  Otherwise, do your job.  He's not going to punch you and he's not going to pull a gun so let him rant, they're just words.  No one has ever died from words out of a coaches mouth.